Looks like Michael Ignatieff is poised to do another about-face... this time on the "Farmer Bob Rifle Registry."*
11/18/2009 03:45:00 pm
the puffin king
Tell me, in your mind, is deciding to whip your caucus after not whipping your caucus worse than promising all Canadians that you would never whip your caucus and make "every vote a free vote" except budgets and main estimates, and then making pretty much every vote a free vote, as Harper did?Tell me, in your mind, is deciding to whip your caucus after not whipping your caucus worse than voting in favour of the gun registry bill on a 2nd reading and then flip flopping and voting against the same gun registry bill a month later, as Harper did in 1995?In other words, is a change in strategic direction worse than a brazen broken promise and an outright flip flop?Consistency and hypocrisy experts everywhere wait with bated breath for your answer.
typo - first paragraph should read "making pretty much every vote a whipped vote" not "making pretty much every vote a free vote".i.e. Harper campaigned on the promise of free votes and then has made pretty much every government bill a matter of whipped confidence and now even private members bills are a matter of a whipped vote.
Now that this matter has become as clear as mud, what will the Liberals do in the next vote on the long gun registry? I suggest they start plucking daisies and see if that helps their decision making exercise. Cheers.
I've read your comments 5 times Ted and its still unclear as to what you are trying to say. If your saying that what Mr Harper said and did 15 years ago somehow pertains to the constant lack of leadership coming from Mr Ignatief today then, I have a better understanding why the LPC is at all time lows in public opinion. All leaders change direction Ted, all leaders change policy depending on opinion and changing issues, but when you do it so much the Media starts to call you Mr Dithers, The Bumbling Professor and now "Iffy"...well, if you cant see the problem then you guys really are in trouble. billg
*ted says... a change in strategic direction"well, ted... however you want to characterise it... i guess it can't actually do him much harm.you're pullin' numbers that put a smile on steffi's face... the only way things can go is up.*
''..In other words, is a change in strategic direction worse than a brazen broken promise and an outright flip flop?...''You tell us Ted, Iffy has done it all (except break an election promise, because the wizard was not elected even as leader of the LPC)Is Iffy's reversal on the Coalition of Losersa strategic direction reversal,or an out right flip flop?and asbestos should be banned, and notand EI360 or bust, and notand no $3 Billion emergency fund, well ok thenand the thinkers conference, and not yetand the HST is bad, and then goodand the war in Iraq necessary, and notand the Green Shift is a winner, and notand Kyoto is a must, and notand raising the GST, and notetc etc etc...Ok Ted,you list what Iffy has stood unwaveringly on,your list will be much shorter!
Anonymous:2006 was not 15 years ago. Harper promised to allow free votes. This was one of the core Reform/Conservative principles he brought with him to government. Call it what you will - a major flip flop, a major broken promise, a major abandonment of principle - but it seems to me that it is a bit more of a big deal than whether or not the leader of the opposition asks 8 MPs to vote against a private members bill.And Harper has a long history of abandoning his commitments and flip flopping on major opinions and actions, which is why his flip flop on the original gun registry vote is relevant. Not only does it show his natural chameleon habits, but it shows how this particular issue - the gun registry - is for Harper only a political football and not a matter of principle in any way, shape or form.
*of course, ted... because you say so.*
I'll see your attempt at pretty weak spin Wilson and raise you a bunch of facts on a legacy of broken promises on major points of fundamental principle and key election promises.1. no unelected senators, on his very first day in office his very first major broken promise. We should have seen the tidal wave of broken promises coming.2. free votes on everything except budgets and main estimates3. no deficits4. no increased spending5. public appointments commission6. budget office reporting directly to Parliament7. fixed election dates8. no taxation of income trusts9. no staffers allowed to become lobbyists10. a “made-in-Canada” environmental and CO2 reduction plan11. no floor crossings (admittedly, this was no his personal broken promise, just that of most of his caucus) 12. promise to strengthen the role of the Ethics Commissioner and prevent the Prime Minister from overruling the Commissioner’s decisions13. public hearings and free votes on Supreme Court nominees14. reduce spending on polling (he doubled Martin’s record setting spending on polling)15. elimination of all GST on gas if prices rose above 85 cents16. make all capital gains exempt from taxation if reinvested17. get rid of CAIS18. increase transparency by giving information commissioner more powers19. make Quebec a “participating government” at UNESCO20. immediately extend VIP services to the widows of all Second World War and Korean War veterans21. not settle for anything less than getting the full $5 billion in illegal softwood tariffs back from the Americans22. all appointments would be made on merit-based requirements23. wait times guaranteeI could go on and on (and on and on and on). But it is clear that Stephen Harper has broken more promises in 4 years than Turner, Mulroney, Chretien and Martin broke in 25 years.
Are you saying that the gun registry vote was whipped by the CPC Ted? If you have some proof of that let us know, otherwise.....
Hey Neo Pretty weak bait and switch attempt.But if you won't explain your thoughts on how Harper's many broken promises are OK but Iggy changing a tactic is not... then maybe you can explain the logic of your last comment there: how does Dalton McGuinty being a flip flopping promise breaker, mean Harper is not???
Sorry Ted...I thought you had said 1995. Regardless...what your saying is that a flip flop, a reversal of opinion, a change of tactics, using issue's as wedges are an indication of a flaw in a mans character? Because if that's what's grinding sand in your ass about Mr Harper then you've just described every great political leader in the US and Canada for the past 30 years. Its not the flip flop Ted...its how great leaders like Mr Harper and Mr Chretien do it and get away with it. Of course Tory Bloggers will find a hundred reasons why its ok just as Lib Bloggers found the same reasons it was ok when Chretien did it..that's what makes it fun Ted...but if it bugs you so much why do you bother? billg
Anonymous 5:26:Is this clear enough for you?Conservative MP Jim Maloway: "In this case our caucus had a whipped vote. We were all supposed to vote for it."And what source do I have for that quote? Is the Conservative Party's own website good enough for you?
Ted, Jim Malloway is an NDP MP you idiot.No wonder you guys are in such bad shape.
"Ted, Jim Malloway is an NDP MP you idiot."To quote a troll who visits here often Bahahahahahahahaha.
Jim Malloway is an NDP MP.....oh that's got so much kharma hanging off of it words cannot begin to describe it. billg
You can't go on and on Ted,the list you are coying from is outdated, and some have always been just Lib spin.7&8 promises were broken, and all the rest except 1 promise is done/initiated1. PMSH said he PREFERRED Senators to be elected but would appoint if he had to.I will link if you ask.2. what non-confidence votes were whipped? The CPC did not have to be whipped on a party platform promise, the Gun RegistryThe ssm vote was free. 3. ALL party's promised no defict spending, and they meant it,without a chrystal ball, who knew oil would NOT go to $200 and financial markets were about to collapse globally?3. provide a link for no increased spending,the fiscal imbalance promise was a promise to increase spending, transfer payments were promised to increase5. the opps ganged up and said NO to the govt choice 6. provide link, the PBO has to report to the Library as far as I know7.& 8. are broken promises9. link please, I remember time limits not an outright ban 10. it is a made in Canada plan,if not provide the names of foriegners writing govt policy11. false, Harper is not and never was against floor crossing because he thinks a leader should not have that kind of power over an elected MP12. done13. opposition thwarted14. provide link on that promise15. true, instead the govt cut the GST by 1%16. true, not yet17. in the workshttp://www.agr.gc.ca/cb/min/index_e.php?s1=col-chro&s2=2006&page=c083018. done19. give Quebec a SEAT at UNESCO20. done June 1, 200921. Best deal possible when Lib govt could not reach a deal, so promise kept, 22. which appointments went to unworthy persons?23. Surgical Wait times decreaseManitoba, Quebec, general wait times in Ontario, Saskatchewan, Nova Scota, report Oct 2009.Wait times for psychiatric treatment decrease nation wide, report Nov 1, 2009
*ah, ted... we've missed you.*
Ted:What liberal policy has Iggy stood firm on?
*"gimbol asks... What liberal policy has Iggy stood firm on?"hmmm... how about eating their young? i mean, we could ask ian davey, jill fairbrother... or that other guy, whatsisface... professor stephane milquetoast.*
"gimbol asks... What liberal policy has Iggy stood firm on?"absolutely nothing,he crossed every line in the sand 'he' drew,he flip flopped on every, not most, but everything he has taken a stand onDonolo has a blank page to work with.
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