05 July 2010

Okay Toronto... no need to panic...

I'm sure Dalton's precious, green wind energy will be kicking in... in three, two, one...

Power went out in Toronto at 4:45 Monday afternoon leaving the city – and its financial core – dark in the middle of a blistering heat wave.

Initial reports suggest the outage is reaching from the eastern suburb of Ajax to Yorkdale in the northwest.
Hello... hellooooo... anybody out there? I don't get it... we're way out ahead of this being a crisis, right?
"Investments of more than $8-billion in green energy projects unveiled by the Ontario government Thursday will add another $60 a year to hydro bills by 2012."
C'mon now... somebody turn on the lights.

RELATED: Hmmm, they all blacked out...

...down at the gamblin' shack?
"Premier Dalton McGuinty is defending an untendered, $81-million contract for an energy centre built to power a casino in Windsor."
Hey... whose riding is that anyway?

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LAST WORD: Green, my hairy, pimpled arse
"We're burning a lot of coal to meet the demand for your ac this week. In fact, coal is the second largest supplier of electricity today after nuclear."
Oh... the huge manatee.


43 comments:

Martin said...

This was posted last week on

viewsfromscience.blogspot.com

"As I've come to expect, sometimes the windfarms produce large amounts of electricity and sometimes they produce nearly nothing. The average capacity factor this last month was a dismal 18.8%. The most output for any one hour was 746 MW, and the least was 0 MW.

No, that wasn't a typo. In fact, there was a period of two hours where not one MW was recorded as being produced. Since the markets are required by law to include wind power where possible, its safe to say that this is because of the wind turbines themselves and not because regulatory limits. ...

In any case, I'm not sure there can be a much clearer illustration of why wind power doesn't work in Ontario. Sure, you can produce electricity maybe 18.8% of the time on average, but the other 81.2% of the time you require another source of electricity, like coal".

Anonymous said...

Power outage affected about 250,000. 10% of the population...we're fine. Oh,the power's back on in most of the city now.

How much power you think they're creating from the oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico? Guys like you are too stupid to live.

Neo Conservative said...

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"another anonymous troll screams... Guys like you are too stupid to live."

ah, well... no arguing with that carefully reasoned thesis... once again the compassionate, intellectual left rides to victory.

simply amazing.

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Anonymous said...

Your post about the power outage was as sensational as the crap the MSM spewed about the G20. Funny how you despise the overblown nonsense surrounding the G20 but latch on to a minor and brief power outage narrated by the same media.

You suffer from a classic case of selective neo conservatism. Carry on young man. You may just grow up one day.

Neo Conservative said...

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"another anonymous troll backpedals... You suffer from a classic case of selective neo conservatism."

way to audible, (doctor) peyton.

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Joe said...

I am interested in what anonymous's solution is to the problem created by wind generated electricity decreasing due to a period of calm but a steady demand for afore mentioned electricity.

OMMAGhttp://ommag.blogspot.com/ said...

My disdain for TO is being solidly reenforced..............

langmann said...

So a few old people and children have to die so that the socialists like nonny can ride off into the green sunset of delusional progressivity... what else is new?

Anonymous said...

Adding more power to the grid kills seniors and babies? thank god doctor langmann doesn't actually have a real practice.

As for the author of the blog...judging by the company you keep, critical thinking isn't your strong point. Keep it up though, one day you might get asked to pen a piece for the Post like Shaidle or McMillan. Oh wait...that could never happen.You're too afraid to blooog under your real name.

Funny how a couple of scruffy dogs like the aforementioned freedom fighters have more balls than you.

Honestly, how do you look your son in the eyes. Coward.

ps. yes...you'll dodge inner coward by calling me one since I've commented anonymously. Doesn't change a thing. You're still a coward.

Neo Conservative said...

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"another anonymous troll returns yet again... You're still a coward."

make up your mind nonny... am i a coward... or am i too stupid to live?

i mean... because you say so.

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Neo Conservative said...

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"another anonymous troll returns yet again... Adding more power to the grid kills seniors and babies?"

gotta love that little green straw man, nonny. that kind of reasoning work for you on the grade 8 debating team?

and hey, hero... which is it... am i too stupid to live... or just a coward?

another stellar thesis from the compassionate, intellectual left-o-sphere.

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syncrodox said...

Jeezus what a simultaneously obtuse, pathetic and bile laden comment.

It takes a fucking immense talent to blend stupid, sad and sick into so little prose.

Congratulations Anony.

Syncro

Ed said...

Anonymous... the most recent anonymous, leaving your hypocrisy aside: $8 billion dollars spent on windmills that are working on average 18% of the time, and occasionally zero. Wow. That's four nuclear power plants which could have been built. You could avoid power blackouts in Ontario altogether by just building nuclear plants. Then when you get a heat wave you won't get seniors and babies dying due to lack of air conditioning.

Sheesh. You probably vote, too, with the critical thinking skills of a wombat. Here's a clue: google the words "Bastiat broken window fallacy". Learn something.

youBetterBelieveImFukkinAnony said...

a transformer blows up, a quarter of a million is without power for 3 freaking hours, and hall of macadamia dude starts beatin off about mcguinty til he shits hisself.

Dude, calm the fuck down will you!

Can you just imagine if it ever woke up to more important issues? The meltdown would be blinding.

Anonymous said...

Actually, in defence of "anonymous" AC power is alternating current. In between the current reversing there is a slight pause. Its just with windpower the pause might be somewhat longer-like a few hours.

See, its all fixed now.

Horny Toad

Hoarfrost said...

To Anon:

What does that mishap in the Gulf have to do with power outages in Toronto. Answer: Nothing.

What is your point?

Most of us take a rational approach to our energy dependency and our long term outlook with regard to that energy dependency.

It is one thing to jump to religious conclusions the way David Suzuki and Al Gore have done. It is another thing to balance current needs versus sustaining our lives in a polluted environment. You have bought into the KOOL-AID that CO2 is a pollutent. It may be, but it has been shown to date that current science cannot support that thesis.

syncrodox said...

I'm gonna do a little psychological spitballin' here with the help of Kubler-Ross.

Denial:

Adding more power to the grid kills seniors and babies? thank god doctor langmann doesn't actually have a real practice.

Anger:

As for the author of the blog...judging by the company you keep, critical thinking isn't your strong point. Keep it up though, one day you might get asked to pen a piece for the Post like Shaidle or McMillan. Oh wait...that could never happen.You're too afraid to blooog under your real name.

Funny how a couple of scruffy dogs like the aforementioned freedom fighters have more balls than you.

Honestly, how do you look your son in the eyes. Coward.

ps. yes...you'll dodge inner coward by calling me one since I've commented anonymously. Doesn't change a thing. You're still a coward.

Bargaining:

a transformer blows up, a quarter of a million is without power for 3 freaking hours, and hall of macadamia dude starts beatin off about mcguinty til he shits hisself.

Dude, calm the fuck down will you!

Depression:

Can you just imagine if it ever woke up to more important issues? The meltdown would be blinding.

Acceptance:



Syncro

L said...

Maybe there are too may giant fans on the grid.

Neo Conservative said...

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"another anonymous troll returns yet again to bleat... Can you just imagine if it(sic) ever woke up to more important issues?"

funny... it seems important enough for you to have fixated on me yet again, nonny.

i guess the first 8 billion dollars is deductible, huh?

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Anonymous said...

IT WAS A TRANSFORMER FIRE ON A HOT DAY

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INCREASING THE RENEWABLE PORTION OF OUR ENERGY SUPPLY MIX

-torontonian

Neo Conservative said...

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"another anonymous troll screams... IT WAS A TRANSFORMER FIRE"

hmmm... seems logical to me that excessive demand ramps up the temp & stress on equipment.

here's a thought... what kind of infrastructure upgrade could ontario & toronto hydro have accomplished... with 8 billion smackers?

you think that's not a legitimate question?

hey, i'm not greedy... i'd have settled for the 81 million bucks liberal mpp dwight duncan shovelled to a casino in his riding.

we get to ask, right? i mean, seeing as it's our money.

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marginalizedactiondinosaur said...

If immigration had been cut in half the last 20 years Toronto could even endure the green technology!

Why add 60 bucks for "free" "sustainable" power? Shouldn't my old province [Ontario] be cutting hydro rates via efficiencies of green energy? If they are raising rates its all a con isn't it.

Does it cost more to turn the sun on that to dig coal?

Neo Conservative said...

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immigration & electricity?

i don't get it.

in the interest of full disclosure... my parents were immigrants.

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nony said...

halls of macademia guy needs this. Sure it was a transformer fire, and it was restored after a few hours, but that isn't the point.

IT WAS A FUCKING TRANSFORMER FIRE CANT YOU SEE!!!!. So, like any shrewd shriek from the hills conservative mouthpiece, it's fair game as a reason to bring up whatever it feels justified, and while it may seem oddly somewhat, well, unrelated to any sane person, bleating that people are discounting the largely unrelated howls is just what they do.

For some, untold reason. Did it actually use the words "carefully reasoned thesis?

oh, my god it did too didn't it. Yes it -is- simple, amazing. No, astounding.

Do what you do!

Neo Conservative said...

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"nony aka nonny returns yet again to once more shriek... IT WAS A FUCKING TRANSFORMER FIRE CANT YOU SEE!!!!."

whoa, nonny... you feel better now?

i know, i know... it's hot, you're tired.

time for your nap, baby.

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Anonymous said...

Hey Neocon, sorry for 'yelling', I see this is a pretty active site so kudos to you.

Leveraging billions in foreign direct investment dollars out of a half a billion in gov't spending is a good policy. I'd rather have the green manufacturing jobs and tax base than an $8B over-built grid to nowhere. Not to be rude again, but do you realize those investment figures in the news articles do not equate directly to government spending?


-torontonian

Neo Conservative said...

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"anon says... Leveraging billions in foreign direct investment dollars"

hey... i'm not greedy... how about dwight duncan just gives us back our 81 million he slipped to the casino in his riding?

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Anonymous said...

That does sound bad neo con, but it is not germane to the discussion of the brownout, Ontario's energy mix or the actual money the Liberals are spending to attract this investment. Also of note, these investment figures represent cumulative totals over many years. Nuclear is expensive, fossil fuels will become increasingly so, it makes sense for Ontario to develop market leadership in N.A. in an industry with a strong growth trend and increasing demand.

Maybe you've done a post on that casino thing? I will look around.

Anonymous said...

"hey... i'm not greedy... how about dwight duncan just gives us back our 81 million he slipped to the casino in his riding?"

As soon as we learn how much dough Tony Clement snorkled into his riding over the G8 stuff.

Or a billion dollars, the most ever spent, to secure the most brainless decision EVER to hold the G20 downtown Toronto.

Pitch a goddam tent at Petawawa, and save the tax payers money!

Are we really going to play this left spent more no the right did game?

Come on.

Neo Conservative said...

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"anon says... it makes sense for Ontario to develop market leadership"

dalton has been sitting on his thumb about nuclear v. coal for how long? if it hadn't been for the global recession pulling his fat outta the fire... we'd have been in deep shit powerwise in ontario this last little while.

"This week, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty announced $8-billion more in green investments, on top of the $7-billion he announced a short while ago. He’s determined to outspend B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, who also wants to be the king of green."

you really think mcguinty's uber-theatrical green p.r. campaign makes more sense than canada being a serious player in the world economy?

seriously?

let's not even get into his lies about shutting down coal-powered generating plants...

"McGuinty promised to end the use of coal in Ontario by 2007 during the 2003 general election but since winning that race, the target date has been pushed back several times and is now 2014."

green, my ass.

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Anonymous said...

1.
Actually, demand for electricity does not correlate 1:1 with economic growth. Even in 2005 before the financial crisis, with rosy economic forecasts, the OPA predicted that Ontario’s electricity demand would rise at just under 1% a year. The only time the grid gets close to maxing out are on these hot summer days, but we easily turn on coal and natural gas to meet this peak demand or import hydro. The recession did NOT prevent some massive energy crisis of scarcity in Ontario, it is baloney to suggest so. In fact, the slow crisis we are facing is the ageing of our nuclear fleet, and you think it is cheap to build nuclear? You think private companies are lining up to do so? You’re dreaming. Nuclear is one of the most expensive options we can choose and even refurbishing (google re-tubing) our existing plants would cost on the order of $15-20 billion.


2.
AGAIN, those big scary green investment numbers represent private and foreign investment not government spending. The actual amount of government spending it took to win those investments is much less and spread out over years, decades in the case of the feed-in-tarif system for renewables. Furthermore, this is exactly the type of industry where Ontario can develop a competitive advantage globally, gaining high-wage engineering, manufacturing, and sales jobs. I really don’t see how this hurts Canada’s global economic position. The factories that are built because of this will go on to get other contracts in the future.

3.
I agree we should use coal as little as possible due to the smog/health effects and am disappointed in McGuinty that he hasn’t moved faster on this. I don’t think Mcguinty is a “green” leader, especially because the core of our future energy supply still revolves around expensive, untested new CANDU designs.

-torontonian

Neo Conservative said...

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"anon says... disappointed in McGuinty that he hasn’t moved faster on this."

sorry, i call bullshit... he lied right to our faces to get re-elected...

"McGuinty promised to end the use of coal in Ontario by 2007 during the 2003 general election."

hey... remember when dalton also publicly signed a written pledge promising not to raise taxes?

i remember when we only paid for ohip once... through our 50 percent taxation rate. free medical care, my ass.

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Anonymous said...

Neo Con,

That payroll health tax is old news, when did that come out, 2003? I remember I was in school and working for $11 an hour part-time. I was not a fan. However, I realize that the province has had to cope with a drastically reduced federal transfer payment for healthcare due to austerity budgets in the 90s and Ernie Eves left the provincial books in a mess. In my opinion, there should have been more efforts to reduce healthcare costs and the incidence of the tax should have fallen more on the rich than on lunchpail folk like myself.

As to your call of bullshit. Let me be clear - I do not support McGuinty, but how naive are you that you think politicians never lie and circumstances never change?

Anonymous said...

You DO remember Ernie, right neo con?

"Cost over-runs at nuclear reactors and a very hot summer combined with problems in market regulation to drive hydro prices up significantly (particularly in northern Ontario). The government was forced to cancel the privatization and capped hydro rates below cost, billing the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars." - from Ernie Eves' wiki page

How can the PCs claim to be fiscally responsible after mismanaging the energy sector so badly.

Neo Conservative said...

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"anon starts flailing... Ernie Eves left the provincial books in a mess."

two comments in a row... you don't really want, or need my opinion, do you, nonny?

yeah, that villain ernie... sworn in as premier april 15, 2002... defeated in 2003 election.

as for those "austerity budgets in the 90s"... that'd be which liberal federal government that stripped the provincial cupboards bare?

that's why we're paying a second healthcare tax, isn't it.

as for the cost of nuclear... you think we could power ontario's industrial sector on unicorn farts?

sorry... friends don't let friends vote liberal.

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Anonymous said...

"anon starts flailing... Ernie Eves left the provincial books in a mess."
two comments in a row... you don't really want, or need my opinion, do you, nonny?


No one NEEDS your opinion, neo con, I do WANT to hear it out of curiosity, but I’m rapidly losing interest.


yeah, that villain ernie... sworn in as premier april 15, 2002... defeated in 2003 election.

as for those "austerity budgets in the 90s"... that'd be which liberal federal government that stripped the provincial cupboards bare?

that's why we're paying a second healthcare tax, isn't it.


The whole PC party is to blame for the misguided and taxpayer funded adventure of trying and failing to privatise energy in Ontario. Both Mike Harris and Ernie Eaves messed that up. Maybe you haven’t clued in yet that I am not a liberal supporter, so yes I disagree with some of the spending cuts of Paul Martin as federal Liberal finance minister. What keeps me writing here, what I don’t understand, is how you claim to be a conservative and then blame the federal liberals for cutting spending too much… bizarre! Can you explain yourself? Are you really an ideological conservative or just a partisan? I mean, it makes sense for a lefty like me to dislike spending cuts, not you.


as for the cost of nuclear... you think we could power ontario's industrial sector on unicorn farts?

sorry... friends don't let friends vote liberal.


I think electricity would be just fine you snarky asshole. If you knew anything about the field, you would understand how misguided your concern for the industrial sector is. Let’s save industry by building ridiculously expensive nuclear plants when there hasn’t been a new build in 40 years and our retrofits have all come in billions over-budget (Bruce, Darlington).

from wikipedia:
"To most Ontarians, the Darlington station is associated with the massive cost overruns incurred during its construction. The initial cost estimate for the station was $3.9 billion CAD in the late 1970s, while the final cost was $14.4 billion CAD.[2] The project was adversely affected by declining electricity demand forecasts, mounting debt of Ontario Hydro, and the Chernobyl disaster which necessitated safety reviews in mid-construction."


You really think energy storage from renewables is a difficult engineering problem?? Sir, let me introduce you to a hill, a water pump and a water turbine. Pump water uphill when you don’t need the electricity, then let it run through the turbine when you do. We already do this with existing hydro and there are many other ways to store energy from renewables cheaply.

I don’t think you’re really a neo con, because if you were, you would realize that there has never been a nuclear power plant built with private money and that it is just plain cheaper and a more competitive market to incentivise widespread demand management through technology improvements (not lifestyle change, don’t worry) and to build more renewable generation.

Anonymous said...

"anon starts flailing... Ernie Eves left the provincial books in a mess."
two comments in a row... you don't really want, or need my opinion, do you, nonny?

No one needs your opinion, neo con, I do want to hear it out of curiosity, but I’m rapidly losing interest.


yeah, that villain ernie... sworn in as premier april 15, 2002... defeated in 2003 election.

as for those "austerity budgets in the 90s"... that'd be which liberal federal government that stripped the provincial cupboards bare?

that's why we're paying a second healthcare tax, isn't it.


The whole PC party is to blame for the misguided and taxpayer funded adventure of trying and failing to privatise energy in Ontario. Both Mike Harris and Ernie Eaves messed that up. Maybe you haven’t clued in yet that I am not a liberal supporter, so yes I disagree with some of the spending cuts of Paul Martin as federal Liberal finance minister. What keeps me writing here, what I don’t understand, is how you claim to be a neoconservative and then blame the federal liberals for cutting spending too much… bizarre! Can you explain yourself? Are you really an ideological conservative or just a partisan? I mean, it makes sense for a lefty like me to dislike spending cuts, not you.

as for the cost of nuclear... you think we could power ontario's industrial sector on unicorn farts?

sorry... friends don't let friends vote liberal.


I think electricity would be just fine you snarky chump. If you knew anything about the field, you would understand how misguided your concern for the industrial sector is. Let’s save industry by building ridiculously expensive nuclear plants when there hasn’t been a new build in 40 years and our retrofits have all come in billions over-budget (Bruce, Darlington).


From wikipedia:
“To most Ontarians, the Darlington station is associated with the massive cost overruns incurred during its construction. The initial cost estimate for the station was $3.9 billion CAD in the late 1970s, while the final cost was $14.4 billion CAD.[2] The project was adversely affected by declining electricity demand forecasts, mounting debt of Ontario Hydro, and the Chernobyl disaster which necessitated safety reviews in mid-construction.”


You really think energy storage from renewables is a difficult engineering problem? Sir, let me introduce you to a hill, a water pump and a water turbine. Pump water uphill when you don’t need the electricity, then let it run through the turbine when you do. We already do this with existing hydro and there are many other ways to store energy from renewables cheaply.

I don’t think you’re really a neo con, because if you were, you would realize that there has never been a nuclear power plant built with private money and that it is just plain cheaper and a more competitive market to incentivise widespread demand management through technology improvements (not lifestyle change, don’t worry) and to build more renewable generation.

Anonymous said...

Apologies for the double post.

Neo Conservative said...

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ah nonny... how could i possibly withstand you beating me over the head with that scholarly holy of holies... wikipedia.

let me toss a little msm back atcha...

-- TORONTO -- Pinned under a $25-billion deficit, the Dalton McGuinty government has secretly hired cost-cutting consultants to go over the public drug plan for seniors and welfare recipients, Sun Media has learned.

and, funny... for all your stated enthusiasm for hydro-electricty... your pal mcslippery just can't seem to break away from coal.

he's about as green as the tar sands.

as for getting bored with me... you've been back, what... 14 times?

i'd hate to see what happens when you get enthused about something.

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Anonymous said...

hahaha!

You think the Ottawa Sun does good news reporting. It is a tabloid rag and sports paper, that's it. You're even clueless on the one thing you do here, re-posting old news stories. At least wikipedia links to primary sources for those of us who actually know how to research and fact check.

Yes I keep coming back, you're like a car crash neo-con...hard not to gawk at such a failure.

Neo Conservative said...

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"anon cries... It is a tabloid rag and sports paper"

so you're disputing the facts of this particular article?

sources please. even wikipedia will do.

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Anonymous said...

I only wanted to discuss energy in the context of your original post and you haven't enaged me in that - nor do I think you would have much of your own to say on the subject as you really only seem to like posting articles, injecting your dimwitted snark and changing the subject every two seconds. Funny how people say it's the younger generation that has attention span issues.

Countercyclical government spending policies during a recession is a debate that I'm sure is entirely over your head.

So goodbye, and for your ignorance, fuck you.

Neo Conservative said...

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"nonny pouts... goodbye, and for your ignorance, fuck you."

yup... about what i'd expect from someone who... one, supplies his own laugh track... two, uses wikipedia (the blow-up doll of academia) as a primary source... and three, has a tantrum when asked to backup his assertions with a source.

thx for playing... and say hi to everybody back at the frat house for me.

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