31 December 2009

Bury my Heart... on Bullshit Mountain

"There is no list of over 500 murdered and missing white women killed by indigenous men, there is however a list of over 500 murdered and missing indigenous women, most of those women were killed by white men."

"I am inviting a lot of the families of murdered and missing women to be standing on the road with pictures of them," Roseau River Anishnabe First Nation Chief Terry Nelson said by phone Wednesday.
Uh, Terry... I think I'm gonna want to have a look at that list. I mean, if you've actually got the names of 500 "white" murderers... maybe you oughta be turning them over to the police.

And, while you're at it... how about some pictures of all the dead children as well...
"The rate of deaths from injuries is 3 to 4 times higher for Aboriginal children than for other children in Canada."

Source: Government of Canada (2002) Healthy Canadians – A Federal Report on Comparable Health Indicators 2002. Ottawa: Health Canada.
You gonna try blame that one on the evil white man too?

And hey... not to be too much of a pain in the ass... you might wanna say something about the absolutely unacceptable rates of substance abuse, domestic violence and homicide... right there in the aboriginal communities.
"The average death rate on reserves for the decade ending in 2002 was more than seven times the national average."
You think that might just have something to do with some of those murdered and missing women?

Finally, I've gotta say, I don't understand why this hysterical ranter is some kind of media spokes-native...
"There are only two ways of dealing with the white man.

One, either you pick up a gun, or you stand between the white man and his money," Terry Nelson of the Roseau River First Nation told CTV Newsnet's Mike Duffy Live on Tuesday.
Good grief... this is the aboriginal community's "best & brightest"?

No wonder they're so messed up.


maryT said...

Stand between a white man and his money. I think all that money going to reserves from the government is mainly white man's money. So, apparently they don't want it any more.
Just maybe, that money should be audited to find out where it is going. It sure isn't going to improve life on the reserve.
I don't think it was a white man that got drunk and allowed his two children to freeze to death.
And it wasn't a white man that killed a 14 yr old girl a few days ago, it was a 12 yr old boy.
Why was a 14 yr old girl allowed to live with her boyfriend, when the age of consent is 16. Where were her parents.

Neo Conservative said...

"maryt says... all that money going to reserves from the government is mainly white man's money"

yup... all 12 billion dollars.

chief terry seems to be willing to jump to all sorts of unsupported conclusions while ignoring all the actual statistical eveidence...

Startling new research reveals that aboriginal drug users living in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside are contracting HIV-AIDS at twice the rate of non-aboriginal users.

Lucy Barney, a nurse-researcher at the Children's & Women's Health Centre of British Columbia and co-author of the paper, said "people congregate in social networks where they feel safe - with their peers."

"This is a real problem when your peers are addicts and end up sharing needles."

here's a thought... how many of the thousands of junkies in east van are aboriginal?

i wonder if any of these missing women perhaps ended up there?

anybody familiar with the area?


langmann said...

Its sad that it's the fate of a select number of women both native and non native, the proportions of which depend on where you are, (I see both in the hospital regularly - in some places in Canada I assure you they are all white), happen to be prostitution, drugs, and violence at the hands of pimps and johns.

We spend a lot of money on it and it doesn't appear to be working. I suggest that natives start taking ownership of this issue in their community and do something about building up women so that they don't wander off the reserves into the hands of all these dangerous white people. There are a lot of chiefs who make over $100,000 a year who could cut their salaries in half to pay for the education of one or two women.

In the meantime since it is all our fault, last time I checked Dr. Dawg was white. I nominate he sacrifices himself for our sins but selling his house and emptying his bank accunt and donating it all to Terry Nelson who I am sure will put that money to its best use.

Sammy said...

Hey Neo,I happen to have the misfortune of living not too far from this loon's reserve.He is a media whore of the highest order.There was an article in Wpg Free Press recently with Nelson basically threatning to have trains derailed..his little form of 'protest'..few days later,the Chief for all Manitoba responded in outrage over Nelson's comments..saying he was undermining years of work between First Nations /CPR.Unbelievable the gall of this man!

Unknown said...

Neo, this is one issue you should just avoid. You don't have any knowledge to back up what you say/infer. You trot out stats without any historical perspective. It really verges on hate literature.

BDFT said...

rbudde, when's the last time you spent any time on an Indian reserve?
I can't comment on the rest of Canada but I'm spent a fair bit of time on reserves in northern BC and most of them (not all) are absolute shitholes. Not all natives are bad but all bad natives are far worse than most people can imagine.

Neo Conservative said...

"rbudde, once again, screeches... It really verges on hate literature."

it's funny, rob... you don't refute even one of the points i've made... you just accuse me of being a racist.

is that what passes for intellectual discourse in your remote corner of the leftophere?

i suppose it's a step up from...

"Oh fuck off you silly child abusing liar."
Posted by liberal supporter to halls of macadamia at 5:52 PM, December 01, 2009

do you guys ever listen to yourselves?

happy new year.


Neo Conservative said...

p.s. rob... just a thought, but perhaps you should consider climbing down off your extremely flexible moral high horse every once in a while.

c'mon robbie... remember what you said about the murder of corporal marcel lemay by your aboriginal pals at the oka standoff?

"Yes, yes, marcel lemay, you've mentioned him already, got it. He shouldn't have been there. Don't build the damn golf course. Duh."

"If we (we two whiteys) are going to live here peacefully, on someone else's land, there has to be some sort of reckoning. Are you movng back to Scotland? If so, I'll help you with that."
Posted by Rob Budde to halls of macadamia at 2:41 AM, September 06, 2008

so... putting a bullet in marcel lemay's head... that's simply "a reckoning with whitey"?

wow... i'd hate to hear your definition of actual fighting.

when i read this post by david thompson... i immediately thought of you...

"Isn’t it wonderful when arguments can be won entirely in your own head, with none of that messy business with evidence, logic and stuff you hadn’t thought of?"

"Perhaps such things are best understood as a kind of theatre for people who wish to agonise and be seen agonising, so as to indicate just how concerned and moral they are, if only to people who are equally conflicted and pretentious."


Rob Budde said...

Don't connect me with "liberal supporter" b/c 1) i am not and 2) it is an ugly association.

There is nothing for me to refute because all you've done is make vague pronouncements. Yes, reserves are tough places but look into the reasons why, don't just rant about the "advantages" First Nations have and how "bad" they are. Yes, I have been on reserves )plural) and have studied the history.

Neo Conservative said...

"rob budde demands... don't just rant about the "advantages" First Nations have and how "bad" they are."

sure robbie... because you're the boss of me.

you ignored my question above @10:51, so i do have to ask once again... putting a bullet in marcel lemay's head... that's simply "a reckoning with whitey"?


Rob Budde said...

I think we went through that whole debate around Oka with no progress. I pointed to the complex context of the standoff and said, as you quote often and out of context, that LeMay should not have been there in the first place--i.e. the standoff could have been avoided with some cultural sensitivity. The same cultural sensitivity needed when addressing poverty and substance abuse on reserves. Research and empathy. You take these stands (some which I respect because they are informed) but sometimes they are without foundation. Much of the nation is racist. You are not alone.

Neo Conservative said...

"rob 'weasel words' budde squeaks... the standoff could have been avoided with some cultural sensitivity"

so, that "insensitivity" justifies your aboriginal buddies shooting corporal lemay in the head and killing him?

i thought you leftbots were opposed to the death penalty. just not for cops, huh?

robbie... you are one troubled little puppy... please, get some help.


Unknown said...

It does not justify, it contextualizes. As opposed to your knee-jerk racism. Are you saying the history is irrelevant? You with the historicized gun on your logo.

Neo Conservative said...

"rbudde once again twists himself into a pretzel defending the indefensible... It does not justify, it contextualizes. As opposed to your knee-jerk racism."

so robbie... you think you could "contextualize" this cold-blooded murder to the satisfaction of marcel lemay's widow & children?

my guess is you'd certainly try...


"I have also worked as a social worker and know that no person is "evil" -- people are led astray, learn bad things, and are forced into actions. There are causes -- it is not an innate in a person."
Posted by rbudde to halls of macadamia at 9:56 PM, October 15, 2008


no innate evil, huh? even your cop-killer idols.

except for little ol' racist me.

robbie... you ever listen to yourself?


Anon1152 said...

In defense of Rob, if "no person is evil", then neither are you.

Hm. Maybe that's in defence of you...

But I digress.

I've only read his comments here, and therefore cannot speak to anything else he has said, but I suspect (based on what I've seen) that he is fairly consistent.

That is, he seems to accuse you not of being "evil", but of being "led astray" and having "learned bad things."

I was more certain of this (that is, my interpretation of his argument) until I realized that he does call you "racist", which I think many/most people categorize as "evil." But I suspect Rob does not. And, as I've said before, I think the term has, unfortunately, been misused and abused to the point that it is no longer helpful when trying to communicate (unless there is a prior agreement/discussion on what the word means... which would be prohibitively time consuming in most contexts).

Apologies to Rob and Neo if I've horribly misinterpreted. You have a longer history with each other than I have with either of you.

Anon1152 said...

Perhaps I should be upfront about my thoughts and feelings re: the blog post itself. I'm reluctant to do so because the relationship between the government of Canada (and the vast majority of Canada's population) is long, complex, and... I have always heard good arguments on both sides.

1. "One, either you pick up a gun, or you stand between the white man and his money,""

That is demonstrably untrue. So demonstrably untrue that I can't possibly demonstrate it's untruth right now. I hope (and in some cases assume... Neo?) that I don't have to.

I will admit that as rhetorical hyperbole goes, it works.

"you might wanna say something about the absolutely unacceptable rates of substance abuse, domestic violence and homicide... right there in the aboriginal communities."

That is most certainly a problem. I think the primary difference between people such as Rob and yourself (and I think yourself and myself) is not that one recognizes the problem and the other does not, but that they attribute the problem to different causes. The secondary (but more important) differences involve proposed solutions.

"Uh, Terry... I think I'm gonna want to have a look at that list. I mean, if you've actually got the names of 500 "white" murderers... maybe you oughta be turning them over to the police."

Exactly what I would ask for. At least the list. However, the number is plausible. In fact, given the last few centuries, I suspect the number of indigenous women "killed by white men" is significantly higher. Even if you consider only the last few decades, I suspect the number is plausible.

You raise an important question: how do the numbers of "white" killers of aboriginal women compare to the not-so white killers.

I don't know.

Which is why my first question, like yours, is "can I please see the list?".

However... I would like to point out that the quote you cite refers to a list of "500 murdered and and missing indigenous WOMEN.

Meaning that the list of "white" murderers could be far lower than 500. Consider the Robert Pickton case. Not all of the women he killed were aboriginal... but I believe there was a disproportionate number compared to, say, the proportion of Canada's population comprised of aboriginal women.

4. Sammy writes: "the Chief for all Manitoba responded in outrage over Nelson's comments..saying he was undermining years of work between First Nations /CPR."

I suspect (based on what I've read here) that that's true. He may indeed be undermining the relationship between the first nations and others... He may still, however, have a point. And what he says may still be true.

The relationship between Canada's indigenous peoples and the rest of us is, as I said, complex and morally problematic. For example, the claim that "white man's money" is being given to Canada's indigenous population [largely true] is easily countered with the accusation that the "white man's money" is made off of land to which the "white man" has little claim.

(It is true that much land was ceded. However even if we assume those treaties were legitimate, massive amounts of land were never ceded. They were taken. That is, I believe, one reason why there are still many many many many unsettled treaty negotiations).

Some of this taking has been rather recent, by the way. Ipperwash was aboriginal land. It was recognized by the government as aboriginal land. But it was taken during WWII under the war measures act.* *


I know people are suspicious of the CBC, but I find their "in depth"/"background" web pages very helpful. They are often critical of the government. But that also means they have excellent pages on Chretien-era scandals.

Unknown said...

Well said Anon. Just to add to my use of the word "racist" (and no, not "evil"--I even hesitate to use the word b/c it sends Neo into such panics) )--I myself have probably said and thought racist things; it is part of our society and hard to evade. But . . . Neo you are saying and implying hurtful things and ignoring the historical complexities (that Anon refers to). No, I will say it again, I am not excusing the murder of LeMay. Violence leads to nothing positive. What I am saying is there are many issues surrounding that violent Oka encounter.

I hope I not coming off "shrill" here. Neo I write these things to point out things that I disagree with in the spirit of open, polite, intelligent debate. I do not "bomb" comment threads; you may be flattered to know yours is one of the few I visit. Aren't you lucky!!

Neo Conservative said...

well, guys... until somebody shows me the infamous murder list... this is simply the further rantings of a rather disturbed individual.

terry nelson, like his buddy david ahenakew is known primarily for his vehement anti-white rants. but robbie, curiously enough, never labels these guys racist. i guess that's the beauty of context, huh?

the fact is, chief terry hasn't (and my guess is, will never) produced his 500 names, never mind explained how he knows the race of the alleged murderers.

but you guys, like the msm... just eat it up. so much for rigourous intellectual thought. like pj o'rourke once said... "show me the logic... and the lab equipment."

lemme ask you guys, if 12 billion dollars a year, going straight into the black hole of the reserve system, isn't putting a dent into this violent, addicted miasma of misery... what do you think will actually turn the corner?


Unknown said...

Neo writes: "what do you think will actually turn the corner?"

Good question. Not easy. I think first is: learn the history. What First Nation territory do you live on Neo?

The corner has to do with First Nations identity, which is not an easy thing to re-establish after being decimated in so many ways.

Neo Conservative said...

"rbudde says... which is not an easy thing to re-establish"

yeah, sure robbie... let's perpetuate a primitive subsistance society of hunter-gatherers. will these folks be giving up living in frame houses, driving cars & snowmobiles... and eschewing alcohol & crack for teepees, deerskin clothes & sweat lodge?

how about i go back to my celtic roots and paint my face blue & start burning & looting anything remotely associated with the english crown?

the first thing to do is get rid of the insane communistic practice of not allowing individuals to own their own property. the chiefs control these people's live... not the wily white man. and we give these folks 12 billion dollars a year... just to wallow in their misery. what's that about?

see rob... we live on a property that we own, that we bought with money we earned... and we are beholden to no one.

instead of this insane insistence on being perpetual victims... perhaps these folks could do themselves a favour and consider integrating into the larger field of folk.

or are their cultural practices so morally sacred & superior that the rest of us must subsidise them in perpetuity.

it sure doesn't look that way from here.