18 January 2011

Less Ban Ki-moon...

...more Seal Team Six...
pirate math

Attackers seized 53 vessels worldwide in 2010, according to the International Maritime Bureau's piracy reporting center in Kuala Lumpur. All but four were taken by Somali pirates.

"More people were taken hostage at sea in 2010 than in any year since records began" in 1991.
Live and don't learn... that's us.


22 comments:

Chris said...

Its not that easy. If you want to line up the pirates... then you need to start with the Euro/Asian ones who have destroyed the unguarded fisheries off the coast of Somalia while others have dumped tons of toxic waste off the same coast.

No UN or NATO action took place to stop those activities (which essentially put the fishermen out of a job - and made them pirates) but they sure are talking about 'pacification' now.

To be fair - the 'piracy' started in the 1990s from actual ex-fishermen. Its probably a different breed today - not that any western news agency has done a whole lot of research into it. While the simple solution would be to place more naval assets in the area and shoot anything that does not carry a flag; its not very practical and it does not get rid of the root cause. I for one do not want my tax money wasted like that. Considering a lack of Canadian interests in the area, I am likely not alone in that.

I would be interested in an investigation into the dumping with the goal of bringing the guilty governments into the light and having them pay for clean up and rebuilding efforts. Though I would imagine such a proposition would be met without much fanfare.

Its just easier to shoot at pirates.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... If you want to line up the pirates you need to start with the Euro/Asian ones who have destroyed the unguarded fisheries"

yeah... executing commercial fishermen... there's a moral equivalence.

no difference between murderous thugs seizing passenger & ships on the high seas... and over-fishing.

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jwkozak91 said...

Chris blathers: "I for one do not want my tax money wasted like that. Considering a lack of Canadian interests in the area..."

Unlike Western Canada - Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada depend on OPEC - not the "eevil Alberta" oilsands - for their gasoline.

Somali pirates hold a scimitar at Eastern Canadians' neck and they don't even know it. Unless you guys want to buy from Senor Chavez and the Venezuelan comrades.

jwkozak91 said...

Anywho, the reason why the International Maritime Bureau's "anti-piracy center" is in Malaysia is this: the previous epicenter of pirate activity was the Straits of Moluccas between Sumatra, peninsular Malaysia and Singapore - where between one-third and a quarter of yearly global maritime trade passes through. 'Twas easy pickings for pirates once, but it's now swarming with law enforcement.

Chris said...

jwkozak91: Anywhere else you can take a look on Levant's blog for your opinion and commentary? Not sure where we go from the pirate matter to where Canadians buy oil but hey, might as well bring a random fact into any discussion. On that note, I am really liking the ford vehicle lineup these days, they have worked really hard to deliver better cars.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... might as well bring a random fact into any discussion"

hey, chris... i say we start trying & executing your homicidal, swashbuckling friends... is that specific enough for you?

your turn...

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jwkozak91 said...

I think you meant Ezra's "book", Chris, not Ezra's "blog". You can't blame NewsCorp for publishing Levant - McCleland & Stewart, publisher of nearly all of CanCon's leading lights, printed both "Shakedown" and "Ethical Oil". Ezra, as a lawyer, knows that if he wrote falsehoods in "Ethical Oil" that multinational NG-corp. Greenpeace would sue his pants off.

If Iranian oil needs to get to Canada, it must traverse the Gulf of Aden - where the pirates are. If the pirates hijack dozens of oil tankers, the price of oil will skyrocket.

But we still have those electric cars plugging into a rickety grid and the dilithium crystals to fall back on, right Chris?

As to the UN investigating alleged waste-dumping in the Arabian Sea off Somalia - you can bet with some certainty that it was the Gulf petro-states that did it. And the Organization of the Islamic Conference holds a +100-vote-veto in the General Assembly - which is why Iran is on the Women's Rights committee and why Libya leads the Human Rights Commission. Therefore, the UN will never investigate waste-dumping in the Arabian Sea.

Chris said...

jwkozak91: I agree with you. The route cause of the problem will not be resolved. Maybe that isn't really important anyway - I mean, what's done is done. But how does the problem get solved looking forward?

Some suggest more bullets and SEAL teams. Its usually those who have never taken a life who propose such simple 'solutions'. I suggest this will solve nothing. Neo recently suggested trials and executions. Hopefully he does not have to administer such punishments. Especially if the executions have no end in sight.

I actually do have three Somalian friends but they are hardly pirates. They came here in the early 2000s as a family and have started 3 successful businesses. They said they had more advantages than most so they used them to get out. Unfortunately not everyone from that part of the world can do that. Of course, not all people are alike but perhaps if there was a small glimmer of hope in that country, maybe more would get out of the pirate business.

As an aside, the price you pay for your gasoline has little to do with individual shipments of crude and more to do with the price the market will bear, taxes and speculation in the futures markets. Even if you simplify the equation with just the apprehension of individual tankers, what do the pirates do with these? Hide them? Burn them? Hardly. The effect of all piracy delays would never be noticed in the price. As well, considering that not one of these tankers has a Canadian flag on it, there really are no Canadian interests to protect. So why would you expend dwindling defence dollars for such activities?

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... Its usually those who have never taken a life who propose such simple 'solutions'"

and, of course, the corollary of that little gem is...

"usually those who have taken many lives propose much more creative, effective 'solutions'".

btw, chris... what do your three successful businessman somali friends suggest we do with the poor victimised pirates?

the mere fact that they're here in canada seems to suggest that they may be even more critical of the somali situation than either you or i.

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Chris said...

I don't agree agree with the substance of the 'corollary' you propose. I have never served but I have worked with many vets, some of whom have shot and killed. Not one of them ever wants to do that again and they do have concerns of the motivations of those who put soldiers in harm's way.

As for my three friends, the Somali pirate situation has never come up in converation and I would never presume to speak for anyone.

I don't think the pirates are 'victimized' at all. Actually I have never seen that notion written anywhere - including your blog or in any of the comments. Strange how that would come up. Anyway, like I said, its a situation that won't ever be resolved through shooting as that action does not get rid of the cause of the piracy.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... I don't agree agree with the substance of the 'corollary' you propose."

it's merely the corollary of your previous thesis chris. what does your agreement have to do with the price of unicorns?

oh wait... now you're worried about ptsd in the special forces community, right?

you wanna know why piracy is no longer the terrible plague that it was a couple hundred years ago? two words, my friend... rope, yardarm.

read a history book or two and get back to us.

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Chris said...

unicorns, dilithium crystals, and "history books". Sure, why not.

ptsd? Nice redirect and standard Neo procedure when faced with an argument.

Here is another Neo procedure:

"you wanna know why piracy is no longer the terrible plague that it was a couple hundred years ago? two words, my friend... rope, yardarm."

Source and link, Neo... Source AND link.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris shrieks... dilithium crystals... Source and link, Neo... Source AND link."

hmmm... the problem is, chris... where to start?

how about, for starters... "to rule the waves" by arthur herman... there's a pretty good description of the hanging of william kidd. quite a bit on the piracy on the barbary coast as well. try your local library.

lemme know when you've worked your way through that one... there's plenty more.

spoiler alert... the british navy of yore... real shortage of "anger management" classes.

say... you don't have any good friends who used to be hangmen, do you?

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Chris said...

Ahh yes - the whole "shrieks" thing. Forgot about that standard Neo response to argument. Another attempt to redirect by focusing on the author and not the argument.

At least this time you have not redirected from your redirect... oh wait, you did! No, I don't know any hangmen. Why that is relevant is only known to you.

Your source and Link? Summary info from your wikipedia search just won't cut it. Nice try, though. I am sure you have a lot better information in your vast "history book" collection.

Neo Conservative said...

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"now chris whines... Your source and Link? Summary info from your wikipedia search just won't cut it."

nice try, chris... got the book right here in front of me... the kidd execution is on page 247. is that specific enough... or are you asking me to type out the relevant paragraphs?

and, sorry to burst your bubble... your "vast history book collection" crack notwithstanding... i would conservatively estimate the number of books in this house to be in the thousands rather than dozens.

admittedly, it is mrs neo who has amassed the lions share of book mountain... but i do admit to reading a tome or two in my time.

anyway, back to it... do you have something useful to say... or will you simply be splattering more feces all over the walls?

hey... you could always go back to... some of my best friends are somali donald trumps... AND guilt-ridden soldiers... whatever that actually means.

even that makes more sense than defending an "industry" consisting solely of homicidal khat-chewing thugs.

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Neo Conservative said...

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update: dear chris... looking forward to reading your protest letter to the south korean ambassador to canada...

"Our special forces stormed the hijacked Samho Jewelry earlier today and freed all hostages," said Col. Lee Bung-woo, a spokesman of South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff. "During the operation, our forces killed some Somali pirates and all of the hostages were confirmed alive."

chris... note that your eco-warrior pirate friends shot the captain of the ship during the rescue... but it looks like he's gonna make it.

a sad day for the compassionate, intellectual eco-left-o-sphere, huh?

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Chris said...

So apparently I whine now. Another attack on the author and not the argument. Some habits die hard.

Its my fault for enabling your "history of piracy in the high seas" redirection. I was illustrating your recurring redirection in arguments by using your tried and true "Link and Source" tactic. I have no reason to doubt the text you say is at page 247 of your book. As such an advanced student of history, like you claim to be, you already know that the economic situation that existed in these times is significantly different than today as is the fact that vast majority of pirates were state funded privateers operating under the sanction of foreign governments. So you must already know that model is not helpful. Just another in a long line of redirects and they just keep coming. Hey, if you can't 'win' one argument, might as well start another?

As to the question about having something useful to say, I direct you to the first comment that was made in the comments section (the one where I pointed out that shooting somali pirates will not solve the problem). After that there has only been one 'commentor' who has splattered feces 'all over the wall': off topic 'corollaries', the 'victimization' sidetracks, prices of unicorns, history book collections, hangmen, suggestions of shrieking, irrelevant suggestions of eco-warriors, pirate industry support, left-o-sphere and even protest letters....Again, I suppose we can draw our own conclusions about that.

While you will never be able to admit it, the last comment you made actually agrees with my statement that shooting somali pirates will not solve the problem. While I hope the actions of the South Korean armed forces eradicates piracy in that area, do you truly believe that we have seen the last of them?

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris whinges... Another attack on the author and not the argument."

geez, chris... you mean like your snide reference to "wikipedia" and the "vast "history book" collection. sure... you're above personal attacks... just like iggy.

sorry, peace moonbeam... you can't take a shot... maybe you shouldn't try to dish it out.

p.s. - how's that outraged letter to the south koreans coming along?

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Chris said...

Complete redirect.

Try again.

Neo Conservative said...

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sure, chris... because you say so.

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Chris said...

"because you say so" ah yes, I've seen that a few times from you as well.

I take it you can't offer anything except redirection at this point?

Thanks for coming out.

Neo Conservative said...

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yeah, chris... that's what my biggest fan, liberal supporter, usually does.

in your case it's a bunch of airy-fairy assertions... "some of my best friends are somali", or "soldiers tell me..." and then you declare victory & walk away.

is that what passes for debate in your neck of the woods?

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