21 January 2011

What if turning the other cheek...

...ends up with your lifeless, well-done carcass being front-page news?

-- Port Colborne, ON. -- “I hear some people, some being police officers, some being Crown attorneys, some being ordinary people, say we don’t want vigilantism, to which I can only give an emphatic 'pardon me'?” Mr. Burlew said.

“When you’re under attack, it’s not a vigilante act. Vigilantism talks about vengeance and retribution. This is about saving your life and saving your property.”
Oh, c'mon now... it's not like these guys were trying to burn down this guy's house... with him inside... wait...

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RELATED: Never a long gun registry around...

...when you really need one...
-- VAUGHAN -- A man in his late 20s was gunned down at a banquet hall late Friday becoming York Region’s first murder of the year.

But it’s unclear if the Toronto man had been a guest at one of the stags that were held inside the Paradise Banquet Hall at 7601 Jane St., just south of Hwy. 7.

The victim’s name was not immediately released. But Wilson said he was “known to police.”
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UPDATE: Bright lights, big city
The victim of a fatal weekend shooting has been identified as Arash Elijah Bakhtaryani, 27, of Toronto.
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THE COMPASSIONATE, INTELLECTUAL LEFT REPLIES:
"If it was me firebombing you, you would not have a chance at a second thought, because as soon as you exited the building, well, the whole idea of the firebomb was to flush the skunk (you) out and get you into um, range."
Posted by liberal supporter to halls of macadamia at 10:18 PM, January 24, 2011


19 comments:

Rich said...

No question the guy violated the law.
In Canada, by law, anyone is allowed to throw 45 Molotov cocktails before a homeowner can even brandish a firearm let alone fire it.

Neo Conservative said...

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more to the point... i'm guessing a homeowner is simply not allowed... whatever the provocation... to use a firearm to defend their life.

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Anonymous said...

If this happened in Texas the cops wouldn't have had to track them down. The three would have been piled up on the curb for garbage pickup.

Neo Conservative said...

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again, the point is... unlike cowardly little internet trolls... these guys didn't just hide in the bushes & call the homeowner silly names.

these thugs actually tried to burn down his house... with him in it.

that's attempted murder. what moron could possibly defend that?

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langmann said...

"Nothing was ever solved by a gun" - Ignatieff pontificates, unchallenged, ignoring his previous writings on military intervention for humanitarian reasons.

Oh wait. A gun is used for its intended purpose, property and life is saved. Imagine that.

Chris said...

As an aside did you guys get the impression that the article left out a lot of information? We go from a dead chicken to molotovs... I've heard of bad neighbors and there is always a gradual elevation of hostilities. I wonder what else occurred over the years?

My advice to friends has always been to keep reporting asshole neighbor activities to police so as to get their file opened and full of information. That way when you really need to have the cops do something, the cops take the right person away and actually charge them.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... keep reporting asshole neighbor activities to police"

hmmm... "neighbor activities"... clarification chris?

somebody tries to burn you to death... and i'm asking chris the homeowner, who just watched his livingroom explode into flames... are you allowed to defend yourself?

and, no... that's not a rhetorical question.

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Chris said...

Off topic (but of course) and argumentative (I am actually agreeing with you, you just have to read the comment) but ok - what I meant by asshole neighbor activity is, well, pretty much anything an asshole neighbor could do. I have been told of neighbors throwing lawn waste onto others' properties, permanently keeping an RV parked directly in front of the neighbor's house, shit... pretty much any anti social thing you can think.

Anyhow - if you had read the substance of the comment you would understand that this stuff always escalates. If you have these issues with your neighbor - get the police report going early and keep it going. You might have a long history with the idiot next door, but to a cop, you are just a call. If that call involves someone with a thick file of asshole behavior, well, that's why the guy with the criminal record always gets picked up first.

And no - an automatic right to do whatever you want to someone 'on your property' or 'doing something to your property' is just not in the cards. Never has, never will. Not even in the USA. If there is a body on your lawn and you are holding a smoking gun, you bet you will be spending the night in holding and then having to explain your actions to the police, the crown and likely in a courtroom. If there was a genuine threat to you and there is substantial evidence to support that (witnesses, video, etc) then you may never get charged.

Not even sure why you would want the opposite. A 'carte blanche' on homeowner violence may bring a lot of unintended consequences.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... an automatic right to do whatever you want to someone 'on your property' or 'doing something to your property'"

no, chris... read slower...

somebody tries to burn you to death... and i'm asking chris the homeowner, who just watched his livingroom explode into flames... are you allowed to defend yourself?

you don't understand the question? does this need to be even more specific?

say... you're not trying to redirect the conversation, are you?

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Chris said...

Gotcha:

SOURCE: The Canadian Criminal Code ss34-42 and not some news article. The actual criminal code.

LINK: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-46/page-2.html#anchorbo-ga:s_3_1-gb:s_34

[Neo: Read them this time. I mean, actually read them. You might be pleasantly surprised]

The key to defences is their proof and that the accused only used a justifiable amount of force.

So yes - if someone is trying to burn you, of course you can defend yourself. Hell, its in the criminal code!

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... if someone is trying to burn you, of course you can defend yourself."

well, chris... maybe you should forward that little nugget to the niagara regional police force, huh?

'cos it looks like they're working off some other playbook here.

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Chris said...

Cops implement but cannot convict. When you boil it down, all a cop does is provide evidence and witness services in a courtroom.

Also, as you have pointed out in the past, he media prints stories that leave out 99% of the facts.

What actually happened that night and the weeks leading up to it are unknown to us except for the small fraction given to us by the story.

There is likely a lot more we are not being told. If this guy is legit and the facts justify the force, the crown will back down. The crown hates to lose and look bad.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris says... If this guy is legit and the facts justify the force, the crown will back down"

yeah... it'll all work out, huh?

"Of course... it's a funny kind of victory... I imagine David Chen is out at least ten thousand dollars in legal fees... but that's how the cookie crumbles in Dalton McGuinty's socialist paradise."

how many of those victories can joe lunchbucket afford?

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Chris said...

Will it all work out? Maybe - maybe not. If the crown is pushing this one for trial, you can bet there is a reason. Either way, the end result may 'work out' The facts may show the guy was justified, so charges dropped; they may show that he crossed the line and a conviction (or a plea) results.

Stay tuned - these things can take months to sort out.

As for the cost - what can I tell you? Being charged with a crime is a huge problem for the accused.

Neo Conservative said...

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"chris replies... If the crown is pushing this one for trial, you can bet there is a reason."

again, chris... you could ask david chen.

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Chris said...

Not that I would defend any and all actions by the crown but I believe the facts and the charges were significantly different and it would be difficult to draw a comparison.

Neo Conservative said...

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chris... i think we're gonna have to leave this one at... "same planet, different worlds".

you are, of course, entitled to your beliefs.

if you, however... whatever the reason... try to toss a molotov cocktail through my front window... i will not be content to simply dial 911 and cower in the flaming wreckage.

i will, without a second thought, immediately, forcefully & perhaps irrevocably... do my utmost to change your horoscope... and consider myself eminently justified in doing so.

i have no expectation that you will understand where i am coming from.

i can live with that.

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Chris said...

Well, I believe your overall question was - don't we have the right to defend ourselves?

And you do - of course you do. And that's not common law here, that's in the code. No one has argued with you on that one. So if your life is in danger, you can use justifiable force to defend yourself.

I think your issue is that the guy said that is what he did and the cops did not just simply take the explanation at face value, walk back to their cruisers and call it a day.

They arrested him. Were they right in doing so? Who knows. Then again, what really happened? We have one edited media description of the event... so who knows.

Indulge me here - but I see that you have regular entries about gang activity in the GTA. Some may have even been involved with shootouts at their homes. I imagine they all scream 'self defence' or versions of 'provocation' when the cops show up. It doesn't mean it actually went down that way.

Neo Conservative said...

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i get that we're both pretty dug in here, chris. as i said above... "same planet, different worlds".

at the same time, i do appreciate, however much you & i may disagree, that there is an element of lucidity & sincerity in the discourse... unlike, say... my biggest fan, liberal supporter (see update in main post)... who seemingly has no compunction about sharing his explicitly violent fantasies.

this blog is, among other things, a bit of an inkblot test.

here's a thought... do a little bit of back-reading here... more particularly the reactions, the comments... and come back & tell me who you think the really scary people are.

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