17 August 2009

I'm from the government...

...I'm here to save you...

"The trouble isn't that Obama 'wants to pull the plug on grandma.'"

"It's that under socialized medicine (which I happen to live under, and you don't)... Grandma might not get plugged in in the first place."
And, let's face it... it isn't just Grandma we have to worry about.

Now, I'm just spitballin' here... but the next time I walk into an emergency room with a sick fevered child... it'd be nice to not spend seven and a half hours waiting to see a doctor.

That's when I'll start singin' the praises of government-run healthcare.

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FROM THE COMMENTS: Ask an actual doctor
"Then in the kids less than 3 months, or just sick looking kids it can be meningitis, encephalitis, or sepsis all of which can be treated and have a decent chance of preventing permanent damage if treated rapidly. The only way to prevent it is by immediate treament with antibiotics or antivirals."

"When I see a fevered kid on the chart rack I take him first. If it is a simple viral thing he goes home fast and I don't have to listen to screaming."

"If it is a serious issue then I either save someone's life and/or prevent permanent damage."
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27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Are you under the belief that there are not long wait times in American ER's? If you are, you're mistaken.

If you walk into an ER with an actual emergency, you'll be seen quickly. A fevered child is hardly an emergency and half the reason they're so overcrowded in the first place.

Anonymous said...

If Grandma ain't got insurance, she ain't getting plugged in. When Grandma needs treatment, she gets to negotiate what's best with an insurance provider rep standing in between her and her doc. You want that for your Grandma?

Neo Conservative said...

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sorry, nonny... you're mistaken. under the american system, as long as you're willing to pay... you can have a personal physician.

we moved up here from toronto... it took us six years (thank you bob rae) to get a family doctor. until that time we were at the mercy of the constantly deadlocked emergency room bureaucracy.

now, maybe... if you get brought in by paramedics you'll get triaged quickly... if you're a walk-in, they assume you're not urgent.

and a sick fevered child is a priority... until you rule out meningitis or similar serious illnesses. perhaps it's just me, but a seven hour wait is simply unacceptable.

ask belinda stronach why she chose american healthcare over socialised canadian medicine when she found out she had cancer.

hmmm... two comments in two minutes? yeah, sounds like you'd be willing to sit around waiting for a whole day to see a doc.

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Anonymous said...

So what if you can't pay? What then? You don't deserve to be treated when you're ill?

C-mom said...

When I was on Vacation to the USA I had to take my child to the hospital, man oh man I almost didn't recognize the waiting room in the emerge.

There was a sign behind the triage nurse that said if my child wasn't seen by a doctor, a real Doctor my visit would be free.

In, seen, tested, diagnosed and treatment in just over an hour.

Now that is service, excuse me if I wish to have access to that kind of service, even if I have to pay a wee bit more.

C-mom said...

Ooops meant to say if my child wasn't seen in a half hour the visit was free.

Oh and Mr, Mouse I guess you haven't heard of medicaid? Let me help you out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

Neo Conservative said...

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"c-mom says... Mr, Mouse I guess you haven't heard of medicaid?"

the thing is, c-mom... nonny isn't really interested in inconvenient facts... he's just here to try jam up the conversation.

the fact is... i would have happily paid a $100.00 fee to expedite this incident.

it would have been a huge relief to get my child started on his regimen of treatment and would have been nowhere hear what seven hours of my time was worth.

win-win.

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Anonymous said...

So, folks on medicaid get the same service as though with private insurance? Ah... no. Is that the way it should be? Why should your income determine the quality of your health care?

The average price for a family health insurance package in 2007 in the U.S. was $12,106. For an individual the average cost was $4,479 for the year. This represents a 78% increase since 2001.

Wait times are worse here, no doubt but 5 hour waits in many states are commonplace.

Neo Conservative said...

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nonny wails... Ah... no. Is that the way it should be?"

yes, yes... of course... the perfect socialist world.

a world where everyone, regardless of effort, talent, ability or accomplishment gets to live in the same accomodation, gets the same interesting and fulfilling career and lives happily ever after.

so tell us fidel... how's that workin' out for ya?

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langmann said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
langmann said...

A fevered child can easily be an emergency.

If your kid has a fever plus a runny nose, a cough, or non bloody diarrhea and can still drink and doesn't look toxic then it likely isn't an emergency.

If your kid is less than 3 months, or has a fever and you don't know why, and if the kid looks really sick (what we call toxic) then you should have a physician see them immediately. Sometimes it is a middle ear infection which do not require treatment.

Often it can be a urinary tract infection which requires immediate treatment and referral for further investigation to rule out serious issues that can eventually cause renal failure and no doctor should miss that.

Sometimes it is strep throat which requires immediate treatment to prevent long term sequelae.

Then in the kids less than 3 months, or just sick looking kids it can be meningitis, encephalitis, or sepsis all of which can be treated and have a decent chance of preventing permanent damage if treated rapidly. The only way to prevent it is by immediate treament with antibiotics or antivirals.

When I see a fevered kid on the chart rack I take him first. If it is a simple viral thing he goes home fast and I don't have to listen to screaming. If it is a serious issue then I either save someone's life and/or prevent permanent damage.

As usual nonny blows...

Greg said...

7.5 hours? Must have been the express lane. Nonny mouse just made your case for you. At only $12,000 and change, their private insurance is cheaper than our shitty OHIP. Last I heard 60% of provincial spending is on healthcare. Take 60% of your provincial taxes, 60% of 8% of everything you buy, and maybe 10% of your federal taxes to cover transfers to the provinces and you are over $12 grand for an average family. They should let the average family purchase their own insurance, and cover the unemployed with a temporary plan (like EI).

Neo Conservative said...

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"greg says... Take 60% of your provincial taxes, 60% of 8% of everything you buy, and maybe 10% of your federal taxes"

holy shit... i never actually thought of it like that. now i'm really pissed.

okay, so now i'm off to the hospital to get some blood pressure meds.

see you all at 10:00 pm.

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Anonymous said...

The fact is NEO, that in a free country people have choice, that's what makes it free.
I'm old enough to remember before the Canada health act and it was better than now, this idea government can run anything anywhere but into the ground is an absurdity that would have been thrown out like the USA is doing if we the people of Canada had been given the choice, death penalty same same, you younger generations are so soft and dependent it's sickening, everything you spout has been dis-proven decades ago and brought back by the socialists after enough have died off or forgotten the horrors socialism has foisted on the people of planet earth time and time again.
You lad are an idiot.
D.Saar

langmann said...

@ Neo,

I have told you before exactly what Greg said about how much our taxes go towards Health Insurance. Like I also said before, I had costed a health plan in the states that cost me 50 dollars a month with a coinsurance of 1000 dollars. Except for the 1000 dollars coinsurance for hospitalization it was pretty much the same thing as I get here. Medication was not covered as it is not here. (yes I was young and healthy)

Figure out that difference.

The thing is there if you get older your premiums increase. If you smoke your premiums really increase. If you are a drug abuser your premiums increase. If you have a previous medical condition you can still buy insurance to cover it but you are limited to subsidized providers.

There is some justice to a system that increases premiums for unhealthy stuff like smoking. There is also some justice to a system that doesn't overcharge young people who are getting started for health care they rarely use. By the time you are middle aged you are making more income and can afford higher premiums (unless you are being taxed to death). It encourages people to think about these things. At the same time if you cannot afford it there is medicare and medicaid which actually provide similar benefits to Canadian health care systems.

No one here wants to even contemplate aspects of insurance when it comes to our system. Its always dump more money in, and usually that money is swallowed up by wages.

Neo Conservative said...

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"d.saar says... in a free country people have choice, that's what makes it free"

amen. let's have more... not less... choices.

why shouldn't doctor langmann be able to hang out a shingle and service people who choose not to wait like ailing, disaffected cattle down at the local e.r.? i'd be willing to pay for that.

i had my knee surgery done at a private clinic in don mills and it was one of my most pleasurable encounters with the healthcare system. let's take that concept to its logical end.

more choice... less pain.

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Anonymous said...

a world where everyone, regardless of effort, talent, ability or accomplishment gets to live in the same accomodation, gets the same interesting and fulfilling career and lives happily ever after.

I don't recall advocating for anything other than accessible, affordable health care for all.

So, in your world, the more dough you make, the better health care service you receive?

Careful what you wish for cuz I'm pretty sure most of the loudmouths who sound off here couldn't afford it.

Average household income in the US is around 50 grand and about 70 grand here in Canada. At 12 grand a year for an average family in the US, that's a quarter of your income, if you're joe plumber.

I suppose the millionaires who hang with Capt. Big bucks AKA Neo can afford it all.

So Langmann, you're a doc, eh? You specialize in emergency room medicine? or, are you A LIAR?

langmann said...

@ nonny:

I would use median household income to be a better indicator as it is not significantly effected by outliers. Do you have an economics background? Anyhow Canadian median household income is less than US income according to the OECD and is less than 50,000 US dollars. Moreover median real income has been increasing over the century...

Yes I am an EM physician, and I am specializing in Emergency Medicine. I graduated from a Canadian University and have a license to practice from the CPSO. I am sure you can look me up I have nothing to hide. However if you are doing it to threaten my family or myself then you're an even bigger loser than I thought and maybe there is a good reason to be anonymous...

Neo Conservative said...

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"nonny-mouse protests... advocating for anything other than accessible, affordable health care for all"

yeah sure, yoko... except that the system, which is already critically overburdened and consumes 60% of ontario tax dollars isn't doing anything nearly like that.

c'mon trollboy... you got some magic socialist fairy dust up your sleeve to fix all that?

"everybody wants to save the whales... nobody wants to help mom with the dishes".

p.s. nonny - you wanna start calling somebody a liar... drop the anonymous and use your own name. but that's not gonna happen, is it?

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langmann said...

Oh and neo, I would add that if I could open a private emergency (though lets consider that most GPs practice privately) I would still want to be in the public system. We make more money than our US counterparts due to the lobbying efforts of our college.

When medicare came to Canada physicians experienced a dramatic increase in their salaries, as did unions. Those doomsayer physicians who feared salary reductions were wrong. Follow the money, when governments and powerful lobbyists get together...

And nonny I am told all the time what I can and cannot prescribe. My greatest source of irritation is the fact that I cannot obtain Ultrasound at night, even on patients who I know the result will change management. I can perfrom some studies myself with our Ultrasound but am not qualified to perfrom all types of studies such as resolving and appendix. If you think the states is the only place where the insurance provider dictates treatment then you are mistaken.

I remember one time I had a pregnant woman who came in who had appendicitis from clinical exam. I phoned for an urgent Ultrasound since performing a CT on a fetus is not recommended in this situation. Appendix rupture is highly associated with fetal loss. The surgeon wanted the study or he would not operate as exploratory laparoscopy can also cause fetal loss. I called the radiologist who said she wasn't going to come in because she would have to call the ultrasound tech and it would run up the budget. In her opinion it could wait until morning. (A dangerous decision for a person to make who isn't a specialist in this area). Luckily the woman's sister was married to a radiologist and he performed the study IIRC.

Anonymous said...

drop the anonymous and use your own name. but that's not gonna happen, is it?

Ok tough guy, cuz Neo Conservative is your real name, huh?

Pathetic.

Neo Conservative said...

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"""ANONYMOUS"""" wails... cuz Neo Conservative is your real name, huh?"

oh, puh-leese... once again i have to explain the difference between pseudonymous & anonymous.

see, little nonny... i have been right here every day for the last three years... fielding emails and answering comments (even deliberately provocative nonsense like yours)... right here, where you and your cowardly anonymous ilk can find me.

and yes, you dumbstick... you do... daily.

so where exactly do i find you, yoko?

that's right... nowhere.

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maryT said...

When we would take our g/son to ER when he had a grandmal seizure, we would wait, and asked numerous questions-how often do they occur, how long do they last etc. We would wait for a doctor. One winter morning, about 2.30A.M he seized and we couldn't get the car started, called 911. We live 1 1/2 blocks from hospital and thought it was stupid to call, but had no choice. What a difference, immediate service, and the EMT crew has to stay until a doctor arrives. So, whatever the problem, the ambulance is called. Ambulance arrivals get immediate care.
Years ago, my g/mother fell and broke her arm and shoulder. While being prepared for surgery some bean counter come in to get a signature for payment. The doctor yelled at him, get out of here, she could probably buy the damn hospital. This was pre Health Care.

langmann said...

Just ignore him, Neo. This is his typical behaviour everytime. He comes here, baits, presents some stats which are usually incorrect (like today) and then once you waste your time replying with a reasonable answer he starts his one liner insults.

Neo Conservative said...

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yup... that's what he does.

regardless... i'd love to hear his answer.

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Gibson Block said...

Plenty of older people get lots of expensive treatment in Ontario. They aren't thrown under the bus

Neo Conservative said...

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"gibson block, fresh off defending the chinese poisoning their own children with lead in another comment thread says... Plenty of older people..."

way to nail that one down, gib.

lemme offer up up a more specific example here. a friend of mine, her father had a stroke and needed followup care by a neurologist.

when he phoned for an appointment, he did indeed get a date... 11 months down the road.

oh yeah... this wasn't in bumsquat, manitoba or some other remote location... this was in ottawa.

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