25 January 2007

Kinsella on Pickton

Here's why you don't ever want a Liberal government again... these guys can rationalise anything.

Robert Pickton cannot receive a fair trial anywhere in Canada. It is possible, in fact, that he can't receive a fair trial anywhere on the planet.
Ah... Warren... he had severed heads in his freezer.

Let's keep in mind here, Willie's only expression of regret so far, is that he didn't get to pencil in number 50 on his scorecard. It's also important to remember we're talking about murdered women... not golf strokes.

So Warren, what part of "psychopathic serial murderer" are you not feelin' here?

UPDATE: Kinsella sure knows how to pick 'em

If you were gonna set yourself up as a spokes-rocker for truth and justice... bearing in mind that nobody is disputing that dishonesty and injustice are legion in this wicked world... you might not want to kick it off by defending poor ole' farmboy "Willie" Pickton...
The most damaging witness is a woman named Lynn Ellingson, Staff Sgt. Adam says, who has told police she saw Mr. Pickton "skinning a girl hanging on a hook."

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brem said...

Exactly my thoughts. What part of guilty can't you spell? :)

Why are we spending money on a trial?

Let's lynch him! and his bro too! :P

Joan Tintor said...

I guess one upside of the Sponsorship Scandal is that it has given some Liberals a new perspective on Canada's criminal justice system.

Neo Conservative said...

the party of liberal leadership candidate joe "raise the dead" volpe...


Jason Bo Green said...

If I didn't know better, I'd think he was joking or something.

Come on already. I'd say he's gotten an extremely fair shake so far.

Neo Conservative said...

where was kinsella when paul bernardo really needed him?


shaken said...

Does Kinsella mean we can find no jury in this country that is objective enough to participate in a fair trial? I can understand his doubts about Conservatives, NDP'ers, Bloq-heads, but, surely, he must believe that there are 12 of his beloved Liberals out there that are so high minded that they can objectively weigh the evidence and thus guarantee a fair trial.

Not even 12 Liberals, Warren? In the whole country?

Neo Conservative said...

he says... "anywhere on the planet"

i guess we could always go with "extra-terrestrial" jurors


Anonymous said...

Maybe we should ask Warren,

Who put the heads in Picton's freezer?
Was it.....
A. the tooth ferry
B. Santa
C. the keebler cookie elves

Just asking...!

Anonymous said...

Why don't you look through the knee-jerk partisan haze for a moment and actually read Kinsella's article He's critical of the avalanche of sensationalist, over-the top media coverage.

Reading his column as a defence of this particular accused is best accomplished by reading the headline, reading the byline, and scribbling nonsense on a blog.

p.s. I'm a Conservative -- no great Kinsella fan.

Neo Conservative said...

and kinsella's not an overrated, sensationalist, over-the top self promoting liberal hack?

you could always get a second opinion from kathy shaidle


Anonymous said...

He's vexing to be sure but yes the media and it's lazy boy approach to news is more the issue. The news media has scooped up every piece of human flotsam that suddenly decided being a "journalist" is not quite a bad thing, but they are just proles today like factory workers..churning out product. No journalist under 40 has morals. and the ones over 40 with morals, clear and shining through everything they do is a pretty slim book too. But older journalists were more prone to strong drink and outrageous behaviour..younger journalists are more prone to the addiction of liberalist society, stripped of ethics and morals, and leaving nothing...and for empty people in news, the sensational is all that in their narrow, mindless cud-chewing minds , remains.

Happygilmore1972 said...

I cannot believe how the majority and the media have already convicted Pickton. Now, I am like the rest of us in that I obviously do not have all the facts but there are many things that are not reported or questioned.

For example, in no particular order:

(1) The police, firefighters, and city officials were known to party on the property, affectionately known as "Piggy's Palace". If I remember correctly this was in the paper briefly when the investigation started but there has been no mention of it lately.

(2) Pickton also stated he was set up yet everyone is hanging on the news-report-friendly clips from the witnesses. If it were a fair trial, doesn't he deserve to try and prove this? Rather, everyone immediately takes the word of so-called 'witnesses' that are either police or 'friends' (but are probably implicated hanger-arounds at the Palace). Look at him, here's a somewhat challenged social misfit whom all that frequented the farm would have known as always being around. An easy target. I don't think Willy was a part of these partys.

(3) Where has his brother been in all of this? Strangely quiet considering all of these women were murdered on the FAMILY property and his brother is on trial. Wouldn't he have known about any of this and if so, why didn't he say anything before? If there were severed heads and limbs in buckets, wouldn't he have seen these? Shouldn't he have done something if he had?

I would be folly to claim categorically that Willy Pickton didn't do it, and I am not saying that. Just as it is also folly at this point to claim he murdered these women. We will probably never know what really happened regardless of how the trial concludes.

However, things are not always as they seem...Kyoto? Sponsorship? BUT, usually if there is a whiff of corruption, there is some degree truth in it.

If I were to speculate, I think this was a bunch of cops having some sick fun with women and with the side effect of cleaning up the streets. They got snitched on and Willy's an easy fall guy.

What do I know...I could be wrong. But we should be asking these questions instead of blindly convicting him after the first week of the trial. Especially based on the media's track record on a plethora of issues.

Dennis (Second Thoughts) said...

Anonymous got it right. Kinsella's point is about the media coverage — that it's become so over the top that Picton's right to a fair trial may have been compromised.

As much as people think he's guilty, if he doesn't have access to a fair trial, then this thing we call a democracy doesn't really have a point to it, does it?

Now, I think Kinsella might be criticized on two points:

a) He doesn't provide any solutions. He just states that a balance should be reached without stating how we reach such an elusive balance. Do we impose secrecy on this trial? Is that democratic?

b) I'm not exactly sure that Kinsella is an authority on legal propriety. As I notice a lot with Liberals lately, they only seem to want it in select cases. People might recall that it was Kinsella who openly ridiculed Gomery, the head of a Crown Commission, because he was being too hard on Chretienites. Was that an example of due process and impartiality? Or was that a political attack openly questioning a respected judge's credibility using the very same "media" Kinsella now seems to be denouncing?

Neo Conservative said...

"anonymous said... The police, firefighters, and city officials were known to party on the property..."

ok, i get it... it's like the oj simpson case.

it was actually the cops who planted the severed heads, the blood soaked mattress and pickton's dna on top of one of the murdered women's dna on that dildo they found attached to pickton's gun... because they didn't want the real killer, the mayor of vancouver, to take the fall.

i've gotta tell ya... i've heard more plausible theories on old episodes of batman when i was nine years old.


Peter Loewen said...

Here's the reason why Pickton needs to have a fair trial with an unbiased jury: he is so far charged with 26 deaths, but at least 48 women are missing from the downtown eastside of Vancouver. At least some of the remaining 22 women were probably murdered, and almost certainly by Pickton. But, suppose even one of them wasn't. If we don't have a fair trial for Pickton for these 26 murders he is charged with and for any others he may be charged with later, then we cannot be sure that we've accounted for all of the murders, and we cannot be sure that justice has been done down to every last women. So, we need to be judicious and fairminded. I've little doubt - zero, actually - that he will be convicted. And I think speculation like Happy Gilmour's is just plain crazy. But it's only a fair trial that will ensure that. There is absolutely no point in saying "we found heads with his freezer, so why have a trial?". If he is responsible, a trial will find it out. If he is somehow not responsible, hopefully we'll figure that out, too. But we have to be as judicious as possible to attribute responsibility for each death, right down to every last person. Whether this can occur in the current media environment is up for debate, but in in the end it's bad for everyone to criticize someone like Kinsella for just raising the question.

Duke said...

His punk rock band is a joke too.

Grow up Kinsella.

Neo Conservative said...

"peter said... But, suppose even one of them wasn't... we cannot be sure that we've accounted for all of the murders..."

ok peter, unlike happy "crazy as a shithouse mouse" gilmore... you raise a couple of important points.

i still don't see how he isn't getting a fair trial... for craps sake they spent half a million bucks rejigging a special courtroom just so nobody gets to leap up and tear his head off.

by the time this is over the taxpayers will have spent tens of millions of dollars on little willie's "due process."

and emotional rhetoric aside... no one will actually hang him from the nearest tree before he is found guilty... or, to my regret, even after.

is there a possibility that he is innocent? i'd give better odds on prince charles getting abducted by aliens... but we will see.

oj got off... didn't he?


Anonymous said...

Shades of Air India.. Holy Cow Batman !!.

No Robin, these are all Canadian homegrown lawyers.


Peter Loewen said...

Neo Con:

I think Kinsella's point, which I don't totally buy, is that it won't be possible for him to get a fair trial on all the subsequent charges.


Neo Conservative said...

peter... if that's his point, it sure didn't come through loud and clear...

there were over 600 hits on this post and you're the first to offer that explanation.

in any case, i'd have to disagree... for judicial fairness, some would argue "bend over backward" fairness... it isn't gonna get better than canada.


Peter Loewen said...


Agreed. Warren's article was very very unclear. But I think we can agree that this media coverage will at least make a fair trial less possible for the subsequent charges. Not that there is any chance he could get off otherwise.

Neo Conservative said...

peter... i think maybe willie let that horse outta the barn when he exclaimed... "you're making me out to be more of a mass murderer than i am."

if pickton wants to give up the real killers, you know... the cops, the mayor, george bush... for some of the other women, maybe he can get a cell with a view.

even with what's only come out to this point, he's the new poster boy for bringing back the death penalty.

i'm gonna love hearing the flip side of the story.


Peter Loewen said...


But the possibility of course remains that he didn't kill all of those women, and some other monster will walk because we attribute all the deaths to him. So we need the fairest trial possible. Presuming his guilt for all the deaths ahead of time is only asking for another killer to go free.

Neo Conservative said...

peter... not sure what else you're looking for here. if pickton wants to cough up his version of the truth, he'd be doing everyone, including himself, a favour at this point.

i'm guessin' that won't happen.

i'm not sure why you want to spend all this time leaning on me about this one thing. i'm old enough that i know where right and wrong lie for me.

all i can do is repeat what i said above, "in any case, i'd have to disagree... for judicial fairness, some would argue "bend over backward" fairness... it isn't gonna get better than canada.

obviously my comment about executing him without a trial was an emotional outburst. he'll get his multi-million dollar trial and we'll spend many more millions to warehouse him for the rest of his life... or until such time as some weepy, leftbot parole committee looses him again on an unsuspecting public.

he'll be tried on the other cases and we'll see what happens.

if you're proposing some sort of remedy... i'd like to hear it.


Peter Loewen said...


I am not leaning on you. I think you get it. I was just working through the argument.

Neo Conservative said...

peter... ok, we're cool.

i'm just saying willie's gettin' one sonuvabitchin' pile of due process, that he wouldn't necessarily get anywhere else in the world.

and that, in the real world, kinsella's pissin' and moanin' aside... is as fair as it gets.

"If there was a "rush to judgement" here... I sure wouldn't want see what a meticulous investigation involves..."