03 January 2010

Two days in... yeah, I'm shocked

The city notched its first murder of the year less than 48 hours into 2010 when a prisoner was slain in the Don Jail.

Toronto Police confirmed homicide detectives have been called in after a man was found dead at the Broadview Ave. and Gerrard St. E. prison around 4 p.m. Saturday.

Few other details were immediately available. The victim's name and age have not yet been released.

UPDATE: Murder victim #1 identified
In the lead-up to the ignominy of becoming Toronto's first murder victim of 2010, Toronto (Don) Jail inmate Kevon Phillip had spent three days in segregation -- all for being caught "hooping" 100 grams of marijuana bud.

RELATED: 2009 - Unfinished business


LAST WORD: Hogtown indeed
An Etobicoke father has lost an eye after being horribly beaten by two young men as he tried to stop them from stealing change from a tip jar at a fast-food outlet two days before Christmas.


Sammy said...

Way ahead of you here in Manitoba Neo!!! See stories out of Wpg..an arson on one of the northern reserves(is that word politically correst??),God's Lake Narrows that killed one man,now being investigated as a murder.Another one at..what's that?? Little Black River First Nation,where somebody drove over a man now has major crimes looking into it.Gee Neo,what is the common denominator here???
BTW,Winnipeg not to be left out has had a bunch of stabbings,and a few beatings to ring in the New Year,so don't you be gloating!

Anon1152 said...

Forgive me if I've said all of this before... but I often wonder if your focus on homicide comes before other more pressing problems.

Sammy has (sort of) highlighted the point that Toronto's homicide rate is fairly low compared to other cities in Canada. (Though I realize he wasn't trying to make that point).

I was shocked to hear a few years ago that suicide is far more common than homicide.

Most recent stats I could find are from 2005.**

In Canada in 2005:


(Suicide with Firearms: 593)
(Homicide with Firearms: 202)

Statistically speaking, we are more likely to shoot ourselves with a gun than be shot by someone else. Makes me worry about getting a gun to protect myself.


Neo Conservative said...

"sammy says... Way ahead of you here in Manitoba Neo!!!"

well... my good buddy, rob "grey owl" budde is, once again, all over me about being a racist... he reads this... his head is just gonna explode.

and, as you can see, my newest pal, anon1152 has also taken up the cause. perhaps though, 1152 should be casting a wider statistical net...

" -- In the decade from 1991-2000, there were 5,900 water-related deaths in Canada; of that total, 889 died fishing. -- "

i have yet to see anyone, on either side of the political fence... proposing a ban on fishing. and hell... don't even get me started on ladders.

the thing is, homicide, imho anyway, is one of the bellweather indicators of the general health of society... unlike, say... the relative lack of directed pathological malevolence involved in fishing, or climbing ladders.

it is the lack of care & lack of simple human decency that kills people... not fishing or guns.

ted kennedy's car, or more to the point, ted kennedy's amoral self-involvement & stupidity has killed more people than my guns.

the fact is, i take an interest in toronto because i lived there for many years.

one of the points i try to make here... is that it behooves some of the self-appointed social architects currently feeding off the public teat to consider the facts... before simply choosing to further enhance their bureaucratic empires.

if you're not measuring... you're not managing.

and anon, when you say... "Toronto's homicide rate is fairly low compared to other cities in Canada"... perhaps you need to consider what the numbers would be if you broke out the homicides committed by manitoba's notorious aboriginal gangs.

yeah, yeah... i know. this is canada... we can't do that.


Anon1152 said...

Would you say that suicide rates also say something about the health of a society? I think suicide is more akin to homicide than fishing accidents.

Also, my stats were for one year: 2005.

Yours were for "a decade".

To be fair, then, I suggest taking the fishing accidents and dividing by 10, or taking the suicides and multiplying by 10.


3,743 suicides vs 88.9 fishing accidents.


37 430 suicides vs 899 fishing accidents.

(Is this right? I caught myself almost making a couple of embarrassing mathematical errors...).

As for Manitoba's homicides... Why would I break them out to add to Toronto's homicide rate? If we do add Manitoba's homicides to Toronto's, I ask that we add Manitoba's population into the calculation too.

I hope this doesn't look like I'm trying to pull a CRU style numbers homogenization...

Oh. As for the ban on fishing... The Chretien government continued the moratorium on fishing for Newfoundland Cod that was started by the Mulroney government. So it looks like a bipartisan commitment.

Of course that was to protect the fish rather than humans...

Neo Conservative said...

"anon1152 says... Why would I break them out to add to Toronto's homicide rate?"

c'mon 52, are you being purposely obtuse?

subtract the number of manitoba homicides involving aboriginals and then compare that rate to ontario.

similarly, if you are actually interested in knowing... subtract the horrendous rate of aboriginal homicide, suicide & domestic violence from any demographic... and you'll see where the problem is really manifesting itself.

but again... this is canada... we don't talk about that. of course, if you don't acknowledge it... it'll never really get addressed.

you can simply throw in with robbie... and continue screaming about racism... and ignore working on actual solutions.


Martin said...

Let's see....we pull out the number of homicides in Manitoba committed by and upon Native Canadians. Gotcha.

In Toronto, I suppose we should pull out the number of homicides committed by the brown people.

If we're really good at this, we can prove, statistically, that injuns,darkies and pakis are what's ruining Canada for real men like Neo.

Oh, Happy New Year, I hope you find a job this year. Fucking loser.

Anon1152 said...

Apologies. I thought you were comparing apples and oranges. Which I still think you were doing with the fishing accidents v. suicides.

I want to look into this more... but need to stop for the moment (a couple of deadlines loom).

But I did find something from stats canada saying the average homicide rate among aboriginals from 1997-2000 was 8.8 per 100 000.* That's far higher than the average for the population of canada as a whole. But also far lower than, say, the population of Chicago.

I'm not sure that things for the aboriginal population as a whole are as bad as we think. (Key phrase there: "as a whole").

Also, I'm not sure that excluding the aboriginal population would reduce the numbers significantly. (Though that is what I've been trying to get data for for the last little while). Even if the rates among them are high, they only make up 2 or 3 percent of the Canadian population as a whole.

Anyway. Something to look into... later.


langmann said...

Anon1152, You have a way of working around an issue, and generally beating the straw man.

"I was shocked to see suicide outnumbers homicide (by firearm)"

I'm not. But then again its probably because I work with these population groups.

Comparing suicide and homicide is comparing apples to oranges, to borrow your phrase. Neo is making a point about homicide - which has nothing to do with suicide.

In case you never thought about it, I suspect the vast majority of people who have suffered from any form of homicide probably didn't want the ultimate offence performed on them.

As to worrying about firearms, if you are going to go that far, you should probably remove all the tylenol from your house. When it comes to suicide attempts, the overdose attempt tends to be the majority of what I see and what costs most of us a lot of money. It is not firearms.

syncrodox said...


Any chance the instances of drug suicide and gun suicide split along gender lines?


Neo Conservative said...

"martin shrieks... injuns,darkies and pakis are what's ruining Canada for real men"

oops... look who peed the bed again.

my favourite martin rant though... has to be when he labels me a jew tolerator.

hey marty... say hi to all the squirrels at cc central for me.


Anon1152 said...

If homicide is an apple, and suicide is an orange... what does that make a fatal fishing accident?

(I'm guessing a vegetable of some sort).

""I was shocked to see suicide outnumbers homicide (by firearm)""

Well, I was shocked. But it was, as I said, a few years ago. Also, I object to your use of quotation marks. What I wrote was:

"I was shocked to hear a few years ago that suicide is far more common than homicide."

"In case you never thought about it, I suspect the vast majority of people who have suffered from any form of homicide probably didn't want the ultimate offence performed on them."

I have thought about it. I also suspect that on reflection many people who have failed suicide attempts are glad that they failed.

As for worrying about firearms... I mentioned them because shooting someone is (I think) a more prototypical image of "murder" than others (though someone could kill another intentionally with tylenol or something like it).

At the moment I'm not suggesting we ban anything. (Though I don't know why tylenol is out there so much, given how likely liver damage is...).

I know I'm not often direct. (Sorry).

Though I don't think I'm beating a straw man. (I didn't even think I was fighting...)

maryT said...

And how many teen suicides are because some girl broke up with a boyfriend. And how many murder/suicides are due to divorce and custody cases.
And how many are crime/gang related that we are never told of because of political correctness.

langmann said...

@ Anon1152:

"If homicide is an apple, and suicide is an orange... what does that make a fatal fishing accident?"

Sigh, still don't get the point, do you?

"I have thought about it. I also suspect that on reflection many people who have failed suicide attempts are glad that they failed."

So what?

Go back and read Neo's response to you. You want to change the subject to something irrelevant to the discussion, start your own blog.

I personally agree with Neo's feelings in regards to this issue. In particular it is because I happened to be unfortunate enough to have to spend a bit of time reading through the criminal records of some of Canada's worst offenders. I was stunned by the complete lack of accountability in regards to the leniency and lack of care in regards to the release of some of these individuals with a proven track records of horrendous actions. Randomly raping women, kidnapping and sexual offences, random attacks on individuals resulting in permanent and significant damage or death... all released to accumulate more offences sometimes while serving a sentence for similar actions.

In my opinion the purposeful invasion of another person's person should result in a lifetime 99 year sentence. That's my opinion. It sounds harsh but after occasionally seeing the damage done by these violent criminals that is how it stacks up for me.

@ syncro:

Yes the literature says that men use hanging, knifes, guns or other violent means to end their lives more than women do. That being said significantly more men follow through with suicide using ANY means. Which means that I see men doing all things including ethylene glycol poisoning etc.. Women of the borderline personality type will try overdosing but usually don't ever take enough (on purpose) to do anything harmful, or will cry help right away so we can fix it.

If you're going to look at statistics you have to examine them carefully for what they actually mean. Hint, Anon1152. For example, Toronto on whole may have a lower crime rate than some other places, but if you divided Toronto into areas, there are some areas which are significantly more likely to have murder, and a higher total number, than many other places. That being said there are some other special places in Canada, ie: Winnipeg which are renown as well.

Which means people can hide behind figures, but the ugly truth is there.

liberal supporter said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sammy said...

Gee Neo..I didn't realize you were a 'gun-runner' or did libsupporthoser make a little mistake??
BTW,how come you right on top of the 'ants in the burritos at McD's' in Markham!!! Now this sounds like a cause John McCallum should be on top of...kinda like Bennett and 'dildogate'

langmann said...

Or in lib-supporter's case, ugly people can hide behind stupidity.

syncrodox said...


Thanks for the info. I suspected something the same.


liberal supporter said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I like to see Neo tracking the murder and other crime in Tranta. It serves as a reminder to why I don't want to nor intend to live their. I prefer the wonderfully peaceful city of Calgary .. oooops never mind I think there might have one or two such incidents here as well,but I also do not worry about protection for my family or myself. I maintain the Neo security system idea.
Lieberal supporter you may one day want to remove your head from your a$$ and check out the real world instead of just trolling and taking stupid cheap shots.

Rob C

Sammy said...

Well Lib Support Hose,I happen to be a 50-something Grandmother,that happens to own a few 'squirrel' guns,my own arsenal,and I do know how to use them! Proud to say,I kilt me a bunch of varmints this summer..a few dozen squirrels,a skunk,and 2 porcupines. I happen to have a husband that works away most of the time,and I will use any means neccessary to protect my dogs and my property.And if that includes having to 'wing' an intruder in the ba**s..I wouldn't think twice.The powers that be have told me I can do that legally,and you bet your ass I would.
And,before you start your 'hillbilly'Sarah Palin comparison,think again.I happen to have a Nursing degree,and now am in the Soc.Services field.My hubby and I make more than a nice living..he is in management in an extremely well paid industry.We just choose to live very rural lives,as I can't stand the crap that goes on in the city.I also am guilty of polluting the planet with my SUV, with the territory I have to cover I drive over 2000kms/bi-wkly..and the hubby drives a Hemi! Do I feel guilty?Not a friggin chance! And I'll bet you a paycheque I've got a lot less angst than you do..I LOVE my life!

liberal supporter said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
liberal supporter said...
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Neo Conservative said...

and here comes my biggest fan "liberal supporter"... yet again.

i suppose it's a step up from...

"Oh fuck off you silly child abusing liar."
Posted by liberal supporter to halls of macadamia at 5:52 PM, December 01, 2009

sorry, puss... you lost your commenting privileges for just this sort of idiocy... deleted, deleted, deleted & deleted.

you have to wonder what libby would do with himself if he didn't have the blogging tories.

oh yeah... he'd just have to be satisfied with being an errand boy for this despicable excuse for a human being.


liberal supporter said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Neo Conservative said...

yup... just like his pathetic little alter-ego & fellow errand boy martin... sorry libby... deleted, yet again.


The Grey Lady said...

Gentleman there are very simple reasons why (apart form Langman's info) that the ladies tend to use an overdose over guns, knives.

Those methods might hurt, make a mess and make for an unsightly cadaver.

The Grey Lady said...

Sammy we should do tea sometime. I have a feeling we have a lot in common.

You just kill them critters or do you cook'm too, I have some friends that swear by coon and squirrel meat, but have yet to work myself up to trying it.

Sammy said...

Hey there GreyLady..thanks for the invite..but could we make it coffee?? My Dad always said that the only thing tea is good for was dunking cookies..then you throw away the rest of the tea!!!
I must say,I'm not too adventurous in tasting new 'cuisine'.. I just like killing them!Any Libs heads spinning yet? I have eaten lots of venison,we also have had a few moose..but the absolute BEST was an elk we shot one yr.Better than any beef I've ever tasted.We also are lucky enough to have a neighbour that raises bison,and have had many feeds of this beautiful meat.I've also eaten duck,prairie chicken,and my fav.,Hungarian Partridge.
We are also blessed by the fact my hubby works in a Northern community and we have access to lots of fresh pickerel..which is to die for!
Happy Hunting Grey Lady!

The Grey lady said...

Coffee it is then Sammy, I myself rather use a bow something like this:


Question: If a deer falls from an arrow and no one hears it, is it still dinner?