29 September 2011

Apples, er... Bananas & Oranges?

Hang on a second... if this is all about hate-speech and hurt feelings... don't you have to apply the same standard right across the board?one people, one law

-- LONDON, Ont. -- Police have charged a 26-year-old man over an apparent racial incident in which a banana was thrown on the ice while a black player was taking part in a shootout during an NHL pre-season game.

The banana was thrown from the stands as Philadelphia's Wayne Simmonds — who is black — was skating towards Detroit goalie Jordan Pearce in the shootout before 7,427 at the 9,090-seat John Labatt Centre.
Okay... accepting the premise that this particular stone dumbass brought this specific piece of fruit to the arena on the off chance that he'd get to taunt this one individual... how exactly, is it... that Mr Simmonds isn't being held to the same standard of conduct?
On Monday, Simmonds landed in hot water for an alleged homophobic slur to New York Rangers' agitator Sean Avery during an exhibition game in Philadelphia.

The NHL held a hearing with Simmonds on Tuesday but chose not to discipline him because it felt there wasn't sufficient evidence to do so.
Sorry folks... stop me if you've heard it before... "One people, one law."

It's the only way this democracy thing is truly gonna work.


Platty said...

Agreed, but Avery deserves a shot to the head for not dealing with it on the ice, but then, it doesn't surprise me a bit coming from the biggest coward in the NHL.


Ted Betts said...

You lost me here, Neo.

The fan was charged with a provincial offence, engaging in a banned activity under the Trespass Act. The NHL has no jurisdiction to discipline him for anything.

The NHL has declined to discipline Simmonds because they "have been unable to substantiate with the necessary degree of certainty what was said and by whom".

So where exactly is the double standard?

I know bringing facts to this place is like bringing a grenade to a knife fight, but still.

Mark said...

Hmm... The London police put all their resources into finding one jackass and have him charged within a week. The entire Vancouver Police can't seem to lay one charge against the hundreds of rioters despite having them on camera and confessions. I guess rioting is less of a crime than tossing a banana.

Neo Conservative said...

"ted betts says... You lost me here, Neo."

no, ted... i didn't. while feigning confusion is an interesting tactic... it does nothing to move the actual debate along.

perhaps you should be less focussed on scoring comment points here... than actually addressing the issue, which is... should wayne simmonds be held to the same standard as the dickhead with the banana... or does he get a complete pass?

on ctv last night they featured the "banana incident" but mysteriously, not even a mention of the "alleged homophobic slur".

you think banana guy would have been charged if he'd thrown a kiwi fruit? and if you're gonna freak about the banana... why let the taunts about homosexuality slide?

no selective suckass political correctness there, huh?

if you were just one of the regular "heil hudak" trolls... i wouldn't even bother replying... but, ted... you're smarter than that. lose the simple me thing & try again, okay?


Ted Betts said...

Alright, I'll, um, "bite" on that one Neo.

On the one hand, you have some clear unequivocal indisputable facts: a banana was thrown while a black man was taking a penalty shot; a banana is often used as a racial reference to blacks being closer to monkeys than humans in the evolutionary scale; the throwing of the banana was criminal conduct in and of itself.

On the other hand, you have some allegations put forward by a known liar in the heat of an argument/fight and who is known to hurl all sorts of demeaning insults, and you have an outright denial of the fact of the allegation. The video evidence is not supportive and no one else reports hearing the insult.

Do we weigh these things the same?

An rational person would say, no.

I will add that I thought from the beginning that the banana as racist in this instance was quite a stretch. Who brings a banana to a hockey game hoping for the one black man on the ice to have a penalty shot making him the only skater on the ice? Seemed to me like he was just being an idiot and not a racist, and it seems the follow-up reportage on him shows this.

But your heading did get this right. You can't compare apples or bananas to oranges.

Neo Conservative said...

"ted betts asks... Who brings a banana to a hockey game?"

well, ted... i believe i characterised him here @12:13 as "a dickhead"... but really... that's neither here nor there.

the fact is the media has been crowing long & loud about this alleged act of racism... while totally ignoring the alleged homophobic slur.

the msm constantly cherrypicks what items we are supposed to be outraged by... and buries others that don't fit the rainbows & unicorns narrative.

i don't like being manipulated... never mind so clumsily manipulated... it's an insult to my intelligence.

and honestly, ted... i can't believe that, on some level, you aren't feeling the same thing.

you wanna come here and do the dance, that's cool... just be honest and bring me your "a" game.

that's not too much to ask, is it?


Ted Betts said...

As soon as you bring an a game, I'm there, Neo.

Really and seriously, this is a good example of the invention of media bias by whiny conservatives.

As for "long and loud" on the racism side? It was a one day story. It's was only a two day story because the media covered his arrest, in which they carefully include the explanation of why he threw it (i.e. not racism) and how the police believe him. If they were really out for a racist story, then they might have quoted a rabid rabble type who sees racism everywhere all the time (just like some conservatives see bias everywhere all the time) decrying how they didn't accept the excuse.

As for "totally ignored" on the homophobia side? Looks to me like that might be just a wee bit of an overstatement when it appears to have garned just as much media coverage, if not more.

Like I said, facts here seem to be like bringing a grenade to a knife fight, but I'm sure there are better examples of what you hope to argue and prove, Neo, so as soon as you bring your A game, I will as well.


Neo Conservative said...


yeah, yeah... once again... "grenade"... "knife fight"... what does that even mean? i guess it's a step up from, "oh snap", huh?

this is your idea of intelligent discourse? i mean, go back and take a look at your comments in the link above. you're straying, yet again, into seriously cherniakish (hey, he's a lawyer too, right?) territory, my friend.

you simply wanna continue to trade playground insults, you should jet on over to liblogs... they live for that kinda stuff.

so sorry, tedley... not even remotely interested... you're gonna have to play with, er... by yourself... yet again.


Ted Betts said...

Just have a little fun, Neo.

What else there to do when you make assertions based on no facts and ignore the facts presented to you.

Seriously: are you trying to tell us you actually think that the media "totally ignored" the homophobic comment? despite the links I gave you?

or, even if that were true (which it obviously isn't), that the media ought to give the same treatment to an allegation of a homophobic comment not heard by anyone but someone who just got beaten up by the alleged "perpetrator" as they supposedly did to a clearer set of facts?

The grenade vs knife comment (now who's "feigning confusion"?) refers to the fact that you are making simple assertions unsupported by the facts and your house of cards argument is easily knocked over.

Or to paraphrase the words of an otherwise worldy and wise personage (with too much of a hate-on for liberals, media and Toronto for his own good)... if you were just one of the regular "heil Trudeau" robo-cons... i wouldn't even bother replying... but, neo... you're smarter than that. lose the simple me thing & try again, okay?

WTF said...

"ted betts asks... Who brings a banana to a hockey game?"

According to local reports the banana was purchaced at the JLC.

Neo Conservative said...

"ted betts, yet again, returns to pronounce... despite the links I gave you?"

again... yawn... you're back and your gums are flappin'... but i'm not hearing anything new or relevant.

i dunno, maybe it's a generational thing. thing is, ted... a google search has diddley-squat to do with anything we're talking about here. let me help you out a bit.

the mainstream media today consists largely of what is known as "push technology". information (carefully chosen by an editorial apparatus) is relentlessly shoved down the pipe for hapless consumers to absorb. it's like a guy shovelling horseshit in through your livingroom window. the ultimate goal of these organisations is to have you subscribe to their feed.

one only has to read any big city newspaper... or, say... watch ctv to see the media sausages being pumped out the back of the machine. the push technology is the stuff they're actively shoving up your ass a nickel at a a time.

and if you can't recognise that there is an overarching agenda at any of these organisations... well, there's nothing further i can do for you.

putting terms into google, or any other search engine for that matter, has nothing to do with anything we're talking about here. any data-mining you choose to do is, in fact, the reciprocal of this process.

i guess i assumed that you were being deliberately obtuse as a debating tactic. my bad. maybe you are simply flailing around in the dark here.

or heck... occam's razor... maybe you're just one of them after all.

do i have an agenda? of course i do. if i can pull the suckass politically-correct scales from anyone's eyes... i have accomplished my agenda. i suspect you and i will have to disagree over where that particular line is drawn.

anyway, ted... today i took the motor out of my dishwasher and cleaned out all the hairy, sticky stuff that was bogging down the machinery.

so, despite all the returning here to address your myriad "racism v. homophobia" concerns... i actually did accomplish something today after all.


Ted Betts said...

Yawn. Another conservative whining about The Great Vast Leftwing Media Conspiracy.

It's all bunk, Neo. Sorry to tell you that. It's just a way for political partisans to deflect valid criticism. Lefties used to whine about it and still do. Righties whine about it incessantly even when most of the so-called mainstream media has been supportive of the Harper Conservatives and even endorse him election after election.

But my commentary above actually has nothing to do with that reality, in fact.

Let's live in fantasy land for a moment and pretend all those big bad media corporations are out to get conservatives and enforce political correctness on us all. Even if that fantasy were anywhere near reality, my argument yesterday/today has simply that this is a pretty poor example of that.

More to the point, you make specific statements that are easily and completely refuted by actual facts.

So I do see this incident as a bit of a microcosm of the invention of The Vast Leftwing Media Conspiracy. Statements get made, most normal people can't be bothered to check or refute the statements even though they are easily refuted, and many start to believe them. Which is why I pop up every now and then to prick a hole in this particular balloon.

i guess i assumed that you were being deliberately obtuse as a debating tactic and didn't realize how far off your hyperbole was from reality. my bad. maybe you are simply flailing around in the dark here.

Neo Conservative said...

"ted betts says... why I pop up every now and then to prick a hole"

oh, ted... you don't have to explain anything to me... we're bestest buddies. you just prick away until you satisfy those relentless, undeniable urges.

as any knuckle-draggin' neocon can see... you're hardly emotionally invested here at all. a slow couple of days down at the ol' law office, a guy has to do something to keep his edge, right?

i'm just sorry i don't have time to, yet again, dance around this particularly earthshaking maypole... but, in fairness, i do have to give equal time to your equally erudite fellow travellers.

hmmm... maybe you could offer some of your unique insights over there... nonny seems to be touretting on that gosh-darn nazi thing again. a half dozen of your little homilies over there... that one could be "easily refuted" too.

as always ted... it's been so close to real.

uh... live long & prosper.


Ted Betts said...

Well, what a private newspaper puts into its pages as irrelevant fodder it thinks will draw the masses and make them money... I could care less, frankly.

But you'll note through every single, um, - can we call these "discussions"? - I've had hear, I haven't called Harper - petty, small-minded, big spending, hypocrite of a corrupt liar that he is - fuehrer, nazi or even fascist.

By coincidence, there's an interesting article related to this very point in the National Post today written by, er, somebody who seems to know something about the subject.

My bottom line view is that we soften just how bad and evil nazism and fascism and communism were by comparing our democratically elected non-police state leaders to them.

Have a pleasant weekend with lots of clean dishes.

Neo Conservative said...

"ted betts says... I haven't called Harper - petty, small-minded, big spending, hypocrite of a corrupt liar that he is - fuehrer, nazi or even fascist."

well, ted... it's nice to know that you've got standards.

and you've nailed it yet again, my friend... sigh... if only stephen harper was able to live up to the exacting moral code of the liberal party of adscam & shawinigate.

also, i have to admit, i was heartily disappointed when mr harper was caught stark naked in a sleazy chinatown whore... wait a minute... i guess i'm not so disappointed after all.

anyway... always nice to hear what the guys on the other side of the idealogical fence are thinking.

oh, well... better get back to installing mrs neo's new kitchen taps.