19 January 2009

Is a picture worth...

...50,000 words?

"Mr. Dziekanski, who did not speak English, spent more than 10 hours lost and disoriented before he began throwing around furniture, drawing the attention of police."
As long as we're having a long, drawn out taxpayer-funded inquiry... I wanna know... "How exactly does an unemployed, non-English speaking, middle-aged alcoholic with obvious mental health issues get to the front of the immigration queue?"

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FROM THE COMMENTS: The compassionate left responds...
Well, my friend... how could anybody possibly argue with that impeccably reasoned thesis?

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19 comments:

Reid said...

"How exactly does an unemployed, non-English speaking, middle-aged alcoholic with obvious mental health issues get to the front of the immigration queue?"

Family reunification trumps all w.r.t. immigration policy. It matters not if the family following is going to be a drain on our society. All that matters is the warm fuzzy we get when we reunite mommy and baby son.

Neo Conservative said...

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"reid says... the warm fuzzy we get when we reunite mommy and baby son."

hey reid... i'm all for familial ties, but if you're that concerned about your 40 year-old man-child... should you actually have ditched him overseas in the first place?

just askin'.

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Brian said...

Apparently his mother had been trying for 6-7 years to get him admitted to Canada. The story seems to get a bit "fuzzy" ... did he actually have landed immigrant status or only visitor status ... no one is talking.

If his mother or the legal representative who got his visa approved and knew the flight he was one ... why was no one there to meet him , as they clearly knew his mental state and he spoke no English !!!!

I can only imagine how long it would have been before his mother stopped supporting him and he would appear on the welfare role !

Recently I read that of all the immigrants to Canada only some 17% come with an employable skill , and if you have a skill you go to the back of the line behind family reunification... thank you Liberals for such compassion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw this when my mother-in-law who was in her 80's got into subsidized housing ... an nice apartment. Her elderly friends who had paid taxes all their lives could not get in and were bumped in favor of some elderly "folks" fresh off the boat who had never contributed a nickel to this country.

Neo Conservative said...

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"brian asks... did he actually have landed immigrant status or only visitor status"

don't get me wrong... i'm all for immigration... my parents came to this country back in the fifties... a fact i am very grateful for.

but let's face it, folks... there has to be some minimum qualification for entry... or we're gonna be in serious trouble down the road. the boomers are gonna be retiring soon and somebody has to pay the freight for pensions and health care.

was robert dziekanski a serious candidate to be a contributor to canadian society?

it seems to me this particular case should have been setting off alarm bells way before this guy got near an airplane.

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s said...

"Obvious mental issues"?! Do you have psychiatric training? Somehow I doubt it...but obviously you're a bigot who gets great pleasure, possibly sexual, from the death of immigrants.

Anonymous said...

"How exactly does an unemployed, non-English speaking, middle-aged alcoholic with obvious mental health issues get to the front of the immigration queue?"

Thats easy-TARGET PRACTICE for the RCMP.

The issue is not about his past. Its about the fact that the RCMP,with less than half a minute of consultation, decided to execute this guy.

And perhaps, if he WAS an alcoholic, someone can explain how he could endure a transaltlantic flight and not have a SINGLE drink(according to testamony by the pursure of the plane he was on)

The facts are that 4 trigger happy cowboys killed this man with excessive force(5 jolts from the taser) Then 2 cops went off a fishing expedition to Poland to dig up enough dirt to justify their action.

Whether he was a drunk, or mentally unstable or a law breaker is totally irrelent to his being tasered(although not irrelevant to admitting him into the country). Facts are that the 4 cowboys had no knowlege of who he was, what he was, or of his history.

They found it easier to taser him than try and understand what the problem was.

Horny Toad

langmann said...

That's right, Horny Toad.

They should have beat him with sticks or shot him instead.

The whole thing is a disaster. But I know one thing from personal experience dealing with psychiatric patients: it doesn't matter how big I am: those guys can fight rough and hard. Moreover they bite. These guys can easily hurt you, claw you in the eye, give you an infection, strain your back, rupture a disc... its not like the movies where John Wayne punches the guy out with a single well placed blow.

I don't blame the police for doing a hard job. In reality its bad luck that he died.

Every time I sedate someone there is that very real risk also.

s said...

...except he WASN'T fighting!! He was standing passively. There is a video to prove this. But why would reality change the mind of a fascist right whinger?

Patsplace said...

There's on "H" in winger O Psychic One that can tell from 11 words that an individual is a bigot and enjoys snuff flicks of dying immigrants while doing God know what with their private parts.

I feel honoured.

Neo Conservative said...

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"s screeches... obviously you're a bigot who gets great pleasure, possibly sexual, from the death of immigrants."

boy, sigmund... you sure nailed that one.

psychiatry by anonymous troll... will wonders never cease.

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Neo Conservative said...

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"s for sigmund wails... except he WASN'T fighting!! He was standing passively."

hey, troll-boy... read slower...

"Mr. Dziekanski, who did not speak English, spent more than 10 hours lost and disoriented before he began throwing around furniture, drawing the attention of police."

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langmann said...

?

Obviously some people haven't actually seen the video.

The guy was throwing chairs against the glass wall, threatened a woman with a chair when she tried to talk with him, and then started freaking out when the police tried to have him come with them.

I am not happy he died. My point is that it is easy for people to judge who have no clue what it is like dealing with someone who either has mental health issues or is distressed.

Neo Conservative said...

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"horny toad says... if he WAS an alcoholic, someone can explain how he could endure a transaltlantic flight and not have a SINGLE drink"

well, horny... nobody said he was drunk at the time... but if you think he wasn't an alcoholic, maybe you can take that up with the doc who did the post-mortem...

"Autopsy results outlined for the first time Friday suggest various factors could have led to the heart attack that killed the 40-year-old Polish immigrant, including heart disease associated with chronic alcohol abuse..."

this was simply about a disturbed individual who manifested violent behaviour in a public venue... and who chose not to cooperate with armed police officers.

looks like his alcohol damaged heart just wasn't up to it.

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s said...

Perhaps I should refresh your memory:

At 4 minutes, Dziekanski throws a chair and computer to the ground; at about 6:15 the Queen's cowboys show up; at 6:40 one of them directs Dziekanski away from the door, Dziekanski complies, then they surround him and at 6:48 they shoot him with the taser. At no time does he do anything to provoke them.

Why he came to this country is irrelevant, as is anything else that happened prior to 6:15 on the video. But even seeing the evidence is not enough for a fascist like you. The Crown not pressing charges against these thugs shows that our justice system is no better than the ones in totalitarian countries.

The fact that one of these cops killed a motorcyclist in a drunk driving hit and run accident earlier this year (with his own children in the car) shows what kind of upstanding fellows these policemen are. The Brown shirts would feel quite at home here, and undoubtedly people like you would be the first in line to join them.

Aaron said...

Yes, yes, you all are absolutely right: he probably was an alcoholic, he did not speak English, possibly did not have any valuable skills to contribute to development of Canadian economy, but we don't kill people for that. If you do, you live in a different Canada than myself.

Frances said...

Regardless of his qualifications, or lack thereof, Mr Dziekanski deserved better than he got. However, in the furor over the RCMP tasering, the inactivity and/or downright negligence of the Vancouver Airport Authority and the customs agents is going unquestioned. How could they let this man roam around for 10 hours without trying to sort out things? His mother WAS there waiting (Brian, take note), but was unable to obtain any information and eventually began the journey back home (to Prince George, I understand, which would put her out of contact) in the belief her son had missed the plane.
Recently, our son-in-law and daughter were held up behind customs when Air Canada managed to mislay the luggage from their flight. Were it not for their cell phones, we would have been totally in the dark. No-one came out from the customs area to advise those of us waiting of the problem, and Air Canada reps were conspicuous by their absence.
Some years ago (pre-cell-phone), we spent an anxious time at the airport when a Rotary exchange student didn't come through with her flight. That time, we did try asking the customs people if the girl was with them, and were advised they could say nothing. Eventually Carolina did come through the door, much to our relief. But I was supremely unimpressed at the total lack of communication from the authorities.
I do not defend the RCMP actions, thinking the tasering was too casual and too quick. However, I am strongly convinced that Canada Customs/Immigration have a responsibility in this case. Had this man's mother been able to obtain the information she sought, her son's death could have been avoided.

Neo Conservative said...

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sorry folks... you seem to be missing the point here entirely.

dziekanski, whatever his particular issues were that night, acted out in an irrational and violent manner. if he truly couldn't figure out what to do after he got off the plane... he most assuredly shouldn't have been travelling by himself.

he got the same treatment any similarly violent person would have received under those circumstances. his alcohol damaged heart collapsed under the resultant stress of the confrontation... which, let's admit, he himself initiated... and the gods of statistical anomaly called him home.

take away tasers and the cops could have maced him and beat him with billy clubs... or simply shot him.

the fact that he was not a desirable immigrant is over and above his behaviour that night.

and hey, let's face it.. nobody "deserves" to die... but they do... all the freakin' time.

case in point... more people died in avalanches in canada this season... than have died from tasers in the last decade.

you wanna make this guy the poster child for police brutality in canada... you have a very long way to go.

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s said...

"There are none so blind as those that will not see."

langmann said...

s, I have watched the video. He clearly becomes agitated during the time you state he was doing nothing.

Medical Experts wrote in the report "In the Pathologist’s opinion, the use of the taser did not directly cause the cardiac arrest. Two other Forensic Pathologists concurred with that view. The combined opinions of three Pathologists identified several factors which could have contributed to the cardiac arrest causing death, these include heart disease due to chronic alcohol abuse, an agitated state of delirium, the stress of the physical restraint worsened by the deployment of the taser, a decreased ability to breathe as a result of being restrained in the prone position for part of the struggle, and alcohol withdrawal.
Two medical experts in the area of Addiction Psychiatry and Alcohol Related Disease also reviewed this case. They identified a number of factors which could explain Mr. Dziekanski’s bizarre and aggressive behaviour at YVR. Both experts concluded that Mr. Dziekanski was exhibiting behaviour consistent with the medical syndrome of delirium prior to death. The onset of the delirium could be explained by a number of factors including: alcohol withdrawal; lack of sleep; dehydration; and a high degree of anxiety. These factors would have placed Mr. Dziekanski at increased risk for sudden death.
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I have a large degree of sympathy for police, and while I think things can be learned from this episode about how to do things better, I know the situation they are in very well as I am also at the receiving end of people who have had the system fail.

The thing is that "s" and "liberal" get to sleep at night comfortable that mentally ill people aren't sleeping naked in snowbanks or randomly assaulting people because, like the police, I get to take on the risks attached with dealing with those patients.

Most of the time mentally ill people are very compliant even while exhibiting unusual behaviour. However sometimes, especially the folks who withdraw from alcohol, can exhibit unpredictable and aggressive behaviour. At that point I have to make the medical decision to sedate them or restrain them, often for their own safety. Sometimes these patients come in escorted by the police who also have had to restrain them for their own safety or the public.

Let me say this clearly. There is no perfectly safe way to restrain or sedate someone. At some point in time eventually someone will die no matter what I do. "s" and "liberal" have spent way too much time watching Steven Segal movies or ER on tv and think they know eveything about this. The unfortunate thing is that "s" and "liberal" will be the first to blame me for making an incorrect medical decision while I am taking a risk so they can live comfortably.

@ neo: I think we need to remember the old agage: Never argue with stupid people. First they bring you down to their level, then they beat you with experience. s and liberal cannot help but try and insult everyone to make up for their pathetic debating skills. At s in particular, I'm someone who obviously knows much better than you how Nazis can destroy a family, so drop the pathetic lines.